[2.5] 2600+ Int Whispering Ice Guardian. Wonderous Wizard of Wisdom
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I would agree, the build is very powerful as it is and has it's own place.
It's nice, to just go for uniques and ignore rares. Of course you can't just swap out pieces from a well planned build like this and expect it to work, you have to plan out the build yourself. I'm just saying the math behind the int example is wrong and it is not optimal to ignore damage and es nodes. When you make a spreadsheet and calculate the damage of whispering ice and also your total ES, you can see when min / maxing that scaling int becomes very ineffective past 1,5k+. Not taking the skill effect duration is a big mistake in my opinion and faster cast rate or even increased damage nodes become twice as valuable compared to pure int nodes by then, you lose a lot not taking them, same goes for the high es nodes you can get from the tree quite comfortably. As for the equipment, there are certain best in slot items, like Shavs (obviously) and Black Sun Creset for dmg, but the rest in combination will be better than just scaling int. The ring slots are insanely valuable, you can get a lot of damage on an opal ring when you craft with the cold dmg essence you only need to hit the int roll, and can get 100%+ increased damage and craft nice increased %es rolls on the rings as well, you can hit other nice affixes too, but crafting just for the int roll should be easy enough at the start. After all you don't really need much res rolls on rares at all, just the 50+ int roll. You could potentially even replace astramentis with a well crafted amulet, which has %es crafted as well. If you go for +all atribute rolls in addition to int on a lot of your rares, but that is probably one of the last upgrades I would make, as it lifts the requirement on other rares. I'm going to do my version of the build in EHC this week and see how it compares in practice. But the dmg and ehp I get from my spread sheet are both higher and that without considering skill effect duration nodes, which are a more multiplier in my opinion for a lot of face tank situations. |
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" Not OP, but: The nice thing about math is, that if its wrong, its easy to show where and how. Maybe you can elaborate on the fault's, and publish your spreadsheet? Anyway, me too am enjoying the simplicity of gear acquisition, and the sinergy of gaining int while using guardian. Its a pretty awesome build, i've got a lot of success. More DPS and defense than my failed marauders :-) |
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Duration is good. Cast speed less so because with boosted haste, lightning golem, cast speed from tree and faster casting gem we are already hitting the point of real diminishing returns.
What 6 nodes were you planning on cutting from the tree to take the duration nodes? The problem is that each point has the opportunity cost and pretty much nothing in the tree gives just int. The build stretches out and gets notables that give Int, damage, cast speed, mana etc |
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One thing about stacking massive int is also mana level, I can run 4 purites (poi empowered) discpline (empowered) haste, aa, lvl 20 clarity and still have enough mana to cast ice storm. My haste and AA are not even enlightened.
If you are not stacking int you will not have 3k+ mana so your residual will be less and might not be able to run that many auras. But please feedback your experience holysnowxx. Be intesting to see your stats Green_honey_boo_boo is my favourite south park character! My Goddess Scorned crit ele cleave build @ 1076445 Last edited by turtleken#3572 on Oct 16, 2016, 9:57:04 PM
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" do you have a reduced mana reserved enchantment on your helmet or how can u run all these with the empower ? im running all the auras you do including AA but without empower |
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" Yes took me 3 days. I also have lvl5 enlighten in helm and lvl4 in chest. Aura setup is as follows Helm-enlighten, empower, purity of ice, disc Chest-bm enlighten, purity of ele,purity of fire,purity of light. Glove-aa,clarity,haste(no enlighten) as this leaves me with 199mana and 1 extra socket. You can always get lvl16 clarity on ur belt to free up a socket so you can enlighten things. I dont run cwdt setup, as I have aa,enfeeble on storm and I sometimes use enduring cry if its hard looking map, rallying cry if its simple enough. Good job this build can do fully buffed izaro no problem so I end up about break even, I also use twice enchanted everytime, so each run is around 15c on sc Green_honey_boo_boo is my favourite south park character! My Goddess Scorned crit ele cleave build @ 1076445 Last edited by turtleken#3572 on Oct 17, 2016, 6:02:02 AM
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" do you have an enchantment for one of the auras in your chest then ? because they take 36% each for me with a lvl 4 enlighten and a lvl 20 blood magic gem. lvl 5 empower boosting discipline and purity of ice certainly sounds nice |
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" Yep, I have purity of element enchant, which is in chest. But we run so many things, we can always mix and match. With 34% reduction, lvl20 bm, lvl4 enlighten, skyforth, we can do 2 purities and aa on chest, leaving 1% life. With enchant I have 3 purities in chest with 2%unreserved The empowered aura gives 2% max cold and close to 1kes (given I also have less free mana) Alternative I can run hoi, which adds 5% to dmg roughly I have more than enough dps for what I am currently doing so I think a little bit more defense is good. Next to upgrade is a fertile mind with cannot be silenced corruptions and legacy perfect astramentis. But its unlikely I wiill get it anytime soon Green_honey_boo_boo is my favourite south park character! My Goddess Scorned crit ele cleave build @ 1076445 Last edited by turtleken#3572 on Oct 17, 2016, 7:08:12 AM
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" I'm not going to post spreadsheets in this thread. After theorycrafting for a while I just wanna play the game. If I post a spreadsheet people are going to ask questions and that takes time to answer and explain ;) Just think of it like this. The main bonus ice torm gets from Intelligence is the 1-3 base damage per 10 int. That is actually the thing that has the most impact when scaling int, the others are minor compared to it. The creator of the build claims that scaling int is roughly ~11% increased damage per node. That is not true. It get less and less with each node you take, because adding 1-3 base damage to smth. which already has a lot base damage is going to get less and less % wise. It is like 3-5% increased damage past high enough int. Now nodes that give e.g. 14% increased elemental damage or 4% cast speed scale the base damage by much more than just 3-5% and are literally more multipliers, when you have almost nothing invested in them. They become twice or three times the value at some point. From my point of view it's quite easy and logical to undestand, that you just can't scale int and expect it to be the best dmg in the end. There is an eqilibrium between base damage from int nodes, increased damage and cast speed from nodes. The %es nodes are similar, int gives some %es and flat es. The more es you have the less the flat amount added will be worth % wise. There is again an eqilibrium between taking %es nodes and pure int nodes. Furthermore you can really decide the direction you wanna go with your build, you can get insane amount of dps or insane amount oftankiness, removing the restriction to only take uniques. It of course gets much more complicated now, because you have to calculate what stat to increase to what amount to get the maximum out of it and what you want on your equipment, but it is worth it in my opinion. Icestorm is such an interesting skill. GGG really designed it well. Back to playing the game now ;) Last edited by VaDe255#0007 on Oct 17, 2016, 10:42:44 AM
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Ah I get it. You are incorrectly assuming I based my 11% estimate off a character with low levels of Int instead of swapping and comparing those nodes on my existing character with very high int. I'm not sure why you made that assumption but yeah thats not the case and yes that number is higher at lower levels and varies around depending on how much %increased damage you have already gotten from the many sources in this tree.
You have several more assumptions but its clear that you'd rather be playing the game then discussing which I encourage. Feel free to come back when you have a played character or hard data if you wish to rejoin the conversation. This build was written and played before essence existed and there is certainly some essences that are interesting enough and while they won't beat legacy rings with unique items in standard there is a decent chance they can beat non legacy rings in new leagues with the right rolls Last edited by WaffleT#6054 on Oct 17, 2016, 11:00:56 AM
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