2.3.0 Changes to the High-level Experience Equation

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Zed_ wrote:
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vio wrote:
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Zed_ wrote:

Also every single yellow map that is not a Canyon/Arid/Gorge/Plateau goes into the trash bin immediately.

choices ... applicable for 50 people? 100?

This is a trading game, so applies to everyone.
Lvl 76 Gorge map 4c. Lvl 78 Crematorium map 2.5c.

from the economical point of view your argument does makes sense, for most players the decision now is: can strongboxes with +itemlevel return craftable bases or can the area itself drop them or does it give the most xp/hour.

there is a difference between "worth less" and worthless, i assumend you meant the latter.
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
Last edited by vio#1992 on Jun 28, 2016, 9:25:06 AM
I really don't understand what most of the people here expect of the game.
This is an ARPG, not an MMO. It does not have to cater to people that play only 2 hours a week. This game is modeled after Diablo 2, where getting a char to 100 was an immense achievement and took extremely long, for a miniscule benefit of a few passive points and attribute points.
In PoE the benefit of getting to 100 is even less, so I absolutely do not understand why anyone feels entitled to reach 100 easily.
If you want to get a char to 100 over a longer period of time, you can play standard. Getting a char to 100 in a temp league should be very very hard and require a lot of dedication. Also, the league is now how old, 4 weeks? You still got 2 more months to get a char to 100.

All of these suggestions to make it only harder for the people that play the most are just stupid. As said, this is not an MMO where GGG wants desperately to keep players subscribed even when they just play 30 minutes a day, just for them to pay the subscription. It is probably the opposite here, the more you play, the more you care about MTX, stash tabs and so on.
Penalizing players who play more than others is absolutely against the spirit of PoE. The race to 100 should be long and hard and only achievable by the most dedicated.

I have to agree on one thing though:
The current XP table is strange. It should not be the case that harder maps get a higher XP penalty than lower maps:
Level 70: 70 -> 70
Level 71: 71 -> 70.94
Level 72: 72 -> 71.82
Level 73: 73 -> 72.64
Level 74: 74 -> 73.4
Level 75: 75 -> 74.1
Level 76: 76 -> 74.74
Level 77: 76.9 -> 75.32
Level 78: 77.7 -> 75.84
Level 79: 78.4 -> 76.3
Level 80: 79 -> 76.7
Level 81: 79.5 -> 77.04
Level 82: 79.9 -> 77.32
Level 83: 80.1 -> 77.54
Level 84: 80.2 -> 77.7

We can see here that level 71 maps are only penalized by 0.08%, while 84 maps are penalized by 3.11% (level wise, not XP wise). I would rather sharpen the XP penalty on a character basis. If the map is 10 level lower, the penalty should not be 8% but 50%, or even 10% per level difference. This should only be in effect at 80+
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Jentry wrote:
I mapped as support this league with a few of the top 5 PSC players to hit 100. While I understand and agree with the stimulus which Chris & GGG have for these exp changes, I advocate that the chosen methodology of implementation has exacerbated disincentives to running endgame challenging content, and has reinforced the pervasively growing speed mapping meta which detracts from the fun, challenge, and loot of the highest tier map content in Path of Exile.

In PSC, and progressively for a number of development cycles since the overhaul of map modifiers, the players I see successfully pushing the ladder are speed running mid tier maps (Tier 9-12) in lieu of playing content appropriate for their ability.

I think it is critical to expound upon what I mean by "Speed Running" because it is a playstyle that I only observe in this tiny niche of the POE community. Builds, groups, and Map Rolling revolve around the ability to one shot every monster in the chosen tier of maps, the vast majority of loot is disabled and ignored, and there is significant priority given to sustaining obscenely high Movement Speed.

The gravitation towards this Movespeed=Clearspeed, nodowntimeinstapopmapaftermapinonehideout, playstyle is Phrenetic. For me it has detracted a good deal from the depth and enrichment of what Path of Exile once was because this "Efficiency Mapping" incentives players to actively ignore many aspects of the Game Design and map in Cliques or small groups of like minded players, or Solo in this style to achieve ladder position.

While there has always been a no-life element to the POE ladder, these changes further skew towards the extreme.

I do not fault the players for adapting, responding, to the GGG changes in this fashion. As Chris and GGG has pointed out many times, the playerbase, even in the absence of "Access to Information" on many of the mathematical fine points of the game, the players are becoming ever more efficient at MinMaxing their builds and their playstyle.

The tier 9-12 maps are sustainable indefinitely with minimal currency investment and can be run at max speed with negligible risk to grind exp. Higher tier maps are not sustainable and require currency investment that doesn't return maps or appropriate reward to the risk and differential time it takes to run them (except maybe for the first week of the league). The risks in the highest end maps often appear in Spiky forms, and are not a elegant counterbalance to play skill but rather a direct developer response to expected meta and playstyle.

As more and more players and groups gravitate to this playstyle, they also withdraw, in my experience, from the broader community, trading, crafting, social aspect of POE. The SpeedMapping meta being sustainable as a solo playstyle or clique playstyle supports a narrow band focus on the "Game". It is so much more efficient at accomplishing the niche goal of pushing the ladder that traditional mapping feels slow and wasteful. It is more difficult to make new friends to play with as the lightspeed jump from normal mapping to "SpeedMapping" is very jarring for new players, or longtime players who have never pushed ladder in this fashion. This, by design, has created a, barrier to entry, a monumental disincentive to players who consider jumping into the ladder race.

Basically, what I am arguing here, is to push the ladder these days, you either have to go it alone, or conform to the very narrow and xenophobic speed meta, and it just instantly trashes so much of the richness and depth of an awesome game and encourages elitism as a zeitgeist. I don't think it is healthy or sustainable for the long term of the community.

VOC



Pretty much describes the actual problem, reaching level 100 taking a lot of time and dedication isn't the problem but instead how you most efficiently get there.
In game contact @MajorAsshole

Challenge T-Shirt: 4/6 | Full Challenge Totems: 21/27
Make the top 50 players getting Exp Penalties. And the closer you get to the top 1 Rank the higher the Penaltie gets.
This would mean a massive Player Juggle in the Top Ten, which would be very exciting to watch, and top players need to make new strategies to maintain there postion or maybe sacrifice it for the moment to get more xp, and get back to top at a later point in the race.
This is just a poor example from a scrubtard like me, but i maybe it holds some potential.
Leveling to 100 only felt "fast" for people playing such incredible numbers of hours in rotations. It felt positively glacial for the rest. Now it feels even more glacial. Frankly, this and the lab are the two worst aspects of the game.

I suppose we should be grateful for how they fixed it, given they've made lower level maps far more efficient for xp gains than higher level, and lower level are easier to come by. If they truly wanted to be antagonistic towards their player base they could have made it on a character basis ensuring you still had not only the pain of slower leveling but the pain of finding higher tier maps as well.

There are times where I see their game design philosophy and smile, near genius level implementation. Then there are times, like the lab and this, where I wonder if they secretly hate us to our core.
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UnleashedPoE wrote:
Leveling to 100 only felt "fast" for people playing such incredible numbers of hours in rotations. It felt positively glacial for the rest. Now it feels even more glacial. Frankly, this and the lab are the two worst aspects of the game.

I suppose we should be grateful for how they fixed it, given they've made lower level maps far more efficient for xp gains than higher level, and lower level are easier to come by. If they truly wanted to be antagonistic towards their player base they could have made it on a character basis ensuring you still had not only the pain of slower leveling but the pain of finding higher tier maps as well.

There are times where I see their game design philosophy and smile, near genius level implementation. Then there are times, like the lab and this, where I wonder if they secretly hate us to our core.


I could not agree with you any more. Well said.
You still need to do something to make red maps actually worth running....

I don't think many people really dislike a longer grind to 100, but lots of people dislike that it's more efficient to just chain yellow maps than it is to run actually difficult red maps because the risk/reward balance is dog poo in red maps.
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70#1293 on Jun 28, 2016, 10:54:45 AM
Why does GGG even try so hard for this ''go hard for lvl 100'' thing? They can not stop and still they can not see that? No matter what they do, some players ll find a away to abuse current system. Just adjust a medicore way and leave it, if a player reaches lvl 100 in 1.5 month then leave the choice to him, if he wants to reroll antoher toon or not. It feels like you are so afraid that your game is gonna be consumed too fast. You ve really great game but this ''go hard'' policy really is getting absurd every exp penalty thing... When we look at what you are being about to bring, you just actually remove red tiers, lvl 82 maps become old lvl 78 ones in terms of mob lvl. Then why dont u just remove them and bring old system? People again ll only grind tier 11s cuz risk/reward is so useless beyond tier 11. And we just saw when they increased exp gain from red tiers, tier 14 rotas gave %6 exp at lvl 99 really? We should accept that was too much too. Thats why i said just made a medicore adjusment and leave it as it is. Playing around with these lvl gaps wont help at all as far as we can see.
ing:Jamirryo
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Voroseeg wrote:
The race to 100 was never fast, you just nerfed it based on the streamers that played the game 24/7 with top gear, OP meta builds and +30% packsize Gorge rotations.


+1. You have just made the game worst for us normal people.
really poorly implemented change, not sure how it even makes sense from a design standpoint honestly.

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