I've seen a lot of mentions of using the AG setup with this builds.
What do you wear on it, guys?
Am I correct to assume that if it happens to die, the items are lost?
Hmm, I did some searching around and it does appear regular Fireball does scale with Conc Effect, yes.
But does this mean fireball damage is two-part, one projectile and one explosion?
Or that the projectile is just a 'vessel' and the explosion is 100% of the damage?
If it's not the latter case, then it's a darned pity that modifiers only affect "half" the spell!
Thanks for taking our qns. :)
Been unable to confirm this due to it being minions...
However, I'm fairly sure it's a 2 tap DMG similar to Fireball which also means that using projectile modifiers such as pierce/fork etc will only make the explosion happen on the last target hit which means you lose effective DPS if you do. However, since the spell has the AoE tag the damage increase from Conc effect also affects the projectile.
Okay so we're presented with a conundrum.
I know that tags don't always mean a direct relationship with the interaction between a gem and a support (in Reddit thread). Discussed this in the Discord, and it seems Projectile Weakness, while being an insane modifier (it sits in the "damage taken" and so isn't additive with the "more" damage modifiers like Ele Focus, Min dmg, etc) and immensely useful because of knockback, isn't fully synergised with Fireball / Solar Guards.
When a projectile does pierce, it loses the secondary AoE explosion effect which we have invested an entire support into. Conc Effect also only affects the explosion and not the projectile.
Does this not open the case for something like Ele Focus (we los ignite, but ignite no longer double dips on minion / generic / fire dmg anyway) to take top spot?
For quick ref, Conc Eff 54%, Ele Focus 49%, Controlled Destruction 44% and -100% crit chance penalty.
If the projectiles did NOT pierce I would say Conc Effect takes top spot, but Proj Weakness is far too strong a multiplier to pass up.
Even without pierce, is modifying only one half of the spell (projectile unbuffed but explosion buffed) going to win out over both halves (explosion AND projectile buffed - and damage). Other possibilities are Immolate.
Just wondering if this process has been discussed before, if so do point me to a rough page number and I'll read up! (I read about 1-10 and 75-88).
Ack, with respect to above, my bad. I see Ele Focus was there all along. I myself use FirePen because at worst it is a 37% more mult, when I haven't reached a pack yet (or cursed it it could be as much as a 50% mutliplier. Plus it negates added Ele resist maps (although so does Flammability and EE).
[Ok who am I kidding, I bought a corrupted Vis Mortis with one red link and have to roll with it. ;D]
So I guess it's down to Conc Effect v Controlled Des just as you said - 54% vs 44% -- is the 10% more AoE > 44% damage on the projectile portion? Pierce makes this even worse. (Plus, conc effect may result in less shotgunning in packs.)
EDIT: Emergency!! Ghazzy, I just recalled pierce is 100% on proj weakness. Aren't we negating our entire 6th link if one of our curses totally denies exploisons?
I know that tags don't always mean a direct relationship with the interaction between a gem and a support (in Reddit thread). Discussed this in the Discord, and it seems Projectile Weakness, while being an insane modifier (it sits in the "damage taken" and so isn't additive with the "more" damage modifiers like Ele Focus, Min dmg, etc) and immensely useful because of knockback, isn't fully synergised with Fireball / Solar Guards.
When a projectile does pierce, it loses the secondary AoE explosion effect which we have invested an entire support into. Conc Effect also only affects the explosion and not the projectile.
Does this not open the case for something like Ele Focus (we los ignite, but ignite no longer double dips on minion / generic / fire dmg anyway) to take top spot?
For quick ref, Conc Eff 54%, Ele Focus 49%, Controlled Destruction 44% and -100% crit chance penalty.
If the projectiles did NOT pierce I would say Conc Effect takes top spot, but Proj Weakness is far too strong a multiplier to pass up.
Even without pierce, is modifying only one half of the spell (projectile unbuffed but explosion buffed) going to win out over both halves (explosion AND projectile buffed - and damage). Other possibilities are Immolate.
Just wondering if this process has been discussed before, if so do point me to a rough page number and I'll read up! (I read about 1-10 and 75-88).
The little discussion we had about it was on those pages.
I've contacted GGG about it and were obviously unable to recieve an answer and PoB isn't of much help as well as in-game testing.
However, logically I'll opt back to Controlled Destruction & update the guide for it as the calculation on Proj Weakness is a multiplier we do not want to lose which is confirmed to negate the explosion which means Conc effect looses efficiency.
"
TreadHead55 wrote:
Had a guy on my stream yesterday ask why I wasn't using IAS buff on minions. Any idea what IAS is?
Increased Attack Speed (or cast speed in this specific case) is referred to Flesh Offering.
"
Svolk wrote:
I've seen a lot of mentions of using the AG setup with this builds.
What do you wear on it, guys?
Am I correct to assume that if it happens to die, the items are lost?
Hey,
For WM/TV setup you want Dual Dyadus on him. However, for Solar Guards in this build you want the following:
It's somewhat the standard with few variations but the main pieces are Southbound, Leer Cast & Dying Breath.
"
Krazy_X wrote:
What would be the fastest clearing spectre to get to level 90? SG or flame sentinels or frost sentinels?
Solar Guards, without a doubt!
"
primaeva wrote:
Ack, with respect to above, my bad. I see Ele Focus was there all along. I myself use FirePen because at worst it is a 37% more mult, when I haven't reached a pack yet (or cursed it it could be as much as a 50% mutliplier. Plus it negates added Ele resist maps (although so does Flammability and EE).
[Ok who am I kidding, I bought a corrupted Vis Mortis with one red link and have to roll with it. ;D]
So I guess it's down to Conc Effect v Controlled Des just as you said - 54% vs 44% -- is the 10% more AoE > 44% damage on the projectile portion? Pierce makes this even worse. (Plus, conc effect may result in less shotgunning in packs.)
EDIT: Emergency!! Ghazzy, I just recalled pierce is 100% on proj weakness. Aren't we negating our entire 6th link if one of our curses totally denies exploisons?
Can always recolor with Vorici 8 ;)
You're correct as also stated by Prim so after going through this a milion times I have changed the Conc effect approach back to Controlled Destruction, this is now updated in the guide itself.
EDIT: Emergency!! Ghazzy, I just recalled pierce is 100% on proj weakness. Aren't we negating our entire 6th link if one of our curses totally denies exploisons?
Ghazzy, thanks for the reply regarding AG setup.
I also would like to second the concern about proj weakness. I didn't test it thoroughly, but getting rid of it on Guardians and Shaper felt like a DPS gain.
Killed my first Shaper with this build, thanks for introducing me to the Summoners.
EDIT: Emergency!! Ghazzy, I just recalled pierce is 100% on proj weakness. Aren't we negating our entire 6th link if one of our curses totally denies exploisons?
Ghazzy, thanks for the reply regarding AG setup.
I also would like to second the concern about proj weakness. I didn't test it thoroughly, but getting rid of it on Guardians and Shaper felt like a DPS gain.
Killed my first Shaper with this build, thanks for introducing me to the Summoners.
<3
It shouldn't be a DPS decrease compared to Flammability, but without proper information from GGG it's impossible to test and we can only refer to the extensive testing done by myself & many others in our community :/
EDIT: Emergency!! Ghazzy, I just recalled pierce is 100% on proj weakness. Aren't we negating our entire 6th link if one of our curses totally denies exploisons?
Ghazzy, thanks for the reply regarding AG setup.
I also would like to second the concern about proj weakness. I didn't test it thoroughly, but getting rid of it on Guardians and Shaper felt like a DPS gain.
Killed my first Shaper with this build, thanks for introducing me to the Summoners.
Too many variables here to say mate, Proj Weakness should win out even if it negates explosion damage.
I found a great way of judging DPS is using the frost bolt minibosses before Shaper. They don't have any mechanics interfering witht he clear and there are no adds, and Shaper map has no map mods so you can judge how fast it goes down quite consistently.
These guys are the laziest ever Shaper farmers. I don't think you even need to bust out 7ex for that Tukohama's Fortress - SGs hit damned hard and still maintain stellar clear.
