Ascendancy classes - RIP PVP?

Range is incredibly superior hands down. I'm back at it after trying to play melee for a while (dying on molten chain, tempest shield, trap stacks, ect...) and except a few people, the only players i'm struggling with are ranged with higher reach than I. Heck I even have enought speed to kite a player around the whole arena twice without trouble, this has to be incredibly frustrating for the person facing me (I even teached the basic of my build and gave a bleed weapon to someone just to see how it feel to face it, spoiler : it's not a very good experience).

Multiply this fact by the power of mirrors and you get instant one shot from invisible projectile coming from a player sitting at the other side of the arena. Not something anyone is enjoying i guess.

At least Nurse build is so expensive and his micro is so well timed that it's difficult to copy him and reach the same results.

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crazyjake wrote:

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Rupenus wrote:

i play Poe cause everything seems less stupid compared to other games. we want to keep playing poe, and keep playing pvp. i see no b roken skills actually in pvp. Essence Drain can be managable with frost wall, blade vortex needs high amount of time to be casted et cetera.

EA remains the only problem about HLD PvP to me, actually.

Sorry Nurse, but after playing pvp for 2 seasons as melee i finally understood this game will never be balanced as people want it to be, and i'm not speaking only about EA, ranged are superior to melee and will always be, i think you know what i'm talking about since you used to play melee before respec.
All i can see when i die in arena is the name of the killer on the minimap shooting offscreen some projectile and my lifebar become empty, i simply die for collateral damage in fight i'm not even involved, i got 7k life and acro, almost the limit if you want to keep enought points/gear for damage aegis aurora/heavy ES tank.
I'm not the top geared player but not even the last, i managed to reach position Number 13 last season but this is the state of poe pvp at the moment.
You can call me a whiner when i complain about gap between melee and ranged on arena chat, but at least you have to be honest with yourself...ranged just scale x10 better with good gear, i could make a ranged char with same budget of my melee and abuse wall chain/trap/mine mechanics and reach top 10 in 1 day, but that's not the game i want to play.
I hope you don' t take this too personal, i took your build as an example since you are the living proof of what i'm saying.

no i agree with you.

but lets assume, GGG buffed whooole melee builds.

melee's OPness is not managable in any way. Thats because how initiation is easy with flicker. Thats why Ranged builds are better compared to melee at the moment. You can evade arrows, hide behind the walls... you can manage to handle ranged attack damage somehow. But lets talk about melee, when initiated with flicker and killed in 2 hits. how can you balance that? imagine old 1.2 one shotting flicker builds. Imagine 1-2 shotting dual strike build. 2H cycloners... before that 30% damage nerf with their 10k health, 1000 regen, 45k tooltip, 90k in game dps which is RT. never fucking misses. cwdt + arctic breath constant chill. wasnt that totally broken?

If you buff melee too much, it gets broken. Ranged attacks arent based on initiation, i can only hit someone who is initiating or positioning in the map badly.

Ranged , for example EA, damage is low but area control is so strong that its totally unmanagable. they cant one shot you when you arent near a wall.

LA, squishy spec, requires walls or offscreen'ed to hit hard. i gotta use walls, self cast, or you gotta do a big mistake like lurking near a wall or hitting your face to my frost wall to die. when things get close to melee range LA doesnt even hit. it pierces target.

Puncture? they can never have 100% pierce, use walls, puncture travel speed is also low, you can kite very easily. they cant use GMP, LMP is obligatory to maximize dps. so kiting is much easier.

they should add more and fair initition tools to melee builds which can be counterable with ranged and other builds too. so its gonna be who is going to micro harder wars, which is cool. but buffing melee damage would make again create more broken stuff to the meta.

also lets check what viable melee builds we have in this meta.

Whirling Blades + Bleed
Leap Slam 2H crit sword - expensive but doable
Lightning Strike(stronger than ever, while i was doing this build it wasnt strong at all)

when you tell me, im playing melee... i see those people are using 2H cycloning... sorry but i see only lack of imagination there, 2H cycloning was powerful and people keep using that build out of big desperate nostalgia and dont want to keep moving and developing... and complaining is easier. with right setup im sure Lightning Strike builds gonna wreck 95% of builds in the meta. 5% is EA.

melee = 2H cyclone, thats an universal truth for most of people. but actually its not.

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Rupenus wrote:

no i agree with you.

but lets assume, GGG buffed whooole melee builds.

melee's OPness is not managable in any way. Thats why Ranged builds are better compared to melee at the moment. imagine one shotting flicker builds. Imagine 1-2 shotting dual strike build. 2H cycloners... before that 30% damage nerf with their 10k health, 1000 regen, 45k tooltip, 90k in game dps which is RT. never fucking misses. cwdt + arctic breath constant chill. wasnt that totally broken?

If you buff melee too much, it gets broken.

Ranged however, EA, damage is low but area control is so strong that its totally unmanagable. they cant one shot you when you arent near a wall.

LA, squishy spec, requires walls or offscreen'ed to hit hard. i gotta use walls, self cast, or you gotta do a big mistake like lurking near a wall or hitting your face to my frost wall to die. when things get close to melee range LA doesnt even hit. it pierces target.

Puncture? they can never have 100% pierce, use walls, puncture travel speed is also low, you can kite very easily. they cant use GMP, LMP is obligatory to maximize dps. so kiting is much easier.

they should add initition tools to melee builds which can be counterable with ranged and other builds too. so its gonna be who is going to micro harder wars, which is cool. but buffing melee damage would make again create more broken stuff to the meta.

also lets check what viable melee builds we have in this meta.

Whirling Blades + Bleed
Leap Slam 2H crit sword - expensive but doable
Lightning Strike(stronger than ever, while i was doing this build it wasnt strong at all)

when you tell me, im playing melee... i see those people are using 2H cycloning... sorry but i see only lack of imagination there, 2H cycloning was powerful and people keep using that build out of big desperate nostalgia and dont want to keep moving and developing... and complaining is easier. with right setup im sure Lightning Strike builds gonna wreck 95% of builds in the meta. 5% is EA.

melee = 2H cyclone, thats an universal truth for most of people. but actually its not.

Thx for the reply, i'm actually using 2H crit LS, after the buff is one of the best 'melee' skill, i used Increase area Ice Crash before and it could deal much more damage but since i can' t get close enought to attack i had to change setup.
I can kill anyone stupid enought to get hit by ground projectile, problem is that ice wall decrease my damage by 60% plus i have to add faster projectile against heavy range and they are blocked by terrain object otherwise bow/spell projectile, so i'm basically a differently ranged.
However i used to play 9k life 700+ regen and i couldn't even touch you, i could even deal 1M per hit but it's useless if i can' t get close enought.

sorry to say but 2H crit is not a good idea as it seems. To be honest, whatever you do, the result will be awful. 1H crit weapon + shield is a much much better choice. and probably Aegis would be best choice there as shield. 2H weapons dont have high attack speed rate, their crit base is awful unless you have exquisite blade. Swords doesnt have the best crit multi + crit chance on the tree. (same for axes)

LMP + Phys to Light + Wed + LS + Phys Proj damage(ask to GGG to learn whether its working with LS or not im not sure) + Faster Attacks + light pen. You dont need BCR unless you are facing an aegis build. Your build is about hit and run, never make a face to face fair fight.

USe lioneye's vision, Pierce is a must for all projectile based builds since frost wall is very strong in the meta.

get a 400 pdps dagger start filling all the map with your LS projectiles.

yesterday a guy with dagger LS killed me multiple times.

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Rupenus wrote:

LMP + Phys to Light + Wed + LS + Phys Proj damage(ask to GGG to learn whether its working with LS or not im not sure) + Faster Attacks + light pen

Why would you use LMP in the new LS? Phys proj dmg works for LS projectiles..

LS is quite horrible btw. The pvp maps are absolute garbage for it

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Rupenus wrote:

sorry to say but 2H crit is not a good idea as it seems. To be honest, whatever you do, the result will be awful. 1H crit weapon + shield is a much much better choice. and probably Aegis would be best choice there as shield. 2H weapons dont have high attack speed rate, their crit base is awful unless you have exquisite blade. Swords doesnt have the best crit multi + crit chance on the tree. (same for axes)

LMP + Phys to Light + Wed + LS + Phys Proj damage(ask to GGG to learn whether its working with LS or not im not sure) + Faster Attacks + light pen. You dont need BCR unless you are facing an aegis build. Your build is about hit and run, never make a face to face fair fight.

USe lioneye's vision, Pierce is a must for all projectile based builds since frost wall is very strong in the meta.

get a 400 pdps dagger start filling all the map with your LS projectiles.

yesterday a guy with dagger LS killed me multiple times.

Thank you for the advice, i know 1H dagger + shield are superior to my 2H, what i was trying to say is that the only viable build for melee now are critical ranged based skills: LS, ST? There are no reason to pass 5-6k life since you would probably die in 1-2 hit anyways, run in circle throwing random lightning hoping to hit something isn' t my idea of pvp as melee, otherwise I would have created a ranged

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lapiz wrote:

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Rupenus wrote:

LMP + Phys to Light + Wed + LS + Phys Proj damage(ask to GGG to learn whether its working with LS or not im not sure) + Faster Attacks + light pen

Why would you use LMP in the new LS? Phys proj dmg works for LS projectiles..

LS is quite horrible btw. The pvp maps are absolute garbage for it

i'd use LMP to give no room to escape to my opponent. 7 projectiles cone beam is really wide.

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Rupenus wrote:

sorry to say but 2H crit is not a good idea as it seems. To be honest, whatever you do, the result will be awful. 1H crit weapon + shield is a much much better choice. and probably Aegis would be best choice there as shield. 2H weapons dont have high attack speed rate, their crit base is awful unless you have exquisite blade. Swords doesnt have the best crit multi + crit chance on the tree. (same for axes)

LMP + Phys to Light + Wed + LS + Phys Proj damage(ask to GGG to learn whether its working with LS or not im not sure) + Faster Attacks + light pen. You dont need BCR unless you are facing an aegis build. Your build is about hit and run, never make a face to face fair fight.

USe lioneye's vision, Pierce is a must for all projectile based builds since frost wall is very strong in the meta.

get a 400 pdps dagger start filling all the map with your LS projectiles.

yesterday a guy with dagger LS killed me multiple times.

I am pretty sure dual wield is far superior than a 1hand + aegis, due to you will quite bad block chance and will rely on your rumis(which then takes up other flask options). Also LMP is a waste due to the extra projectiles we get from the new LS already and I also agree with Lapiz that LS is quite bad, due to how arenas are set up(lots of obstacles and corners to run around) and making a PvPbuild around Sarn arena seems rather pointless to me

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Rupenus wrote:

i'd use LMP to give no room to escape to my opponent. 7 projectiles cone beam is really wide.

You should probably re-read what they did to LS! ;<

Also I feel the same way as tommie does about shield vs dw. DW is just too much damage compared to what a shield can offer..

Actually it's not possible to build a 100% reliable 1h/shield. Because spell block items are horrible for melee, you will gimp yourself trying to block attack and spells at the same time and will rely on rumi most of the time. Also bullcrap molten is just too frustrating to fight against

That's why I dropped my dueslit for the moment but be sur he will come back in Ascendancy once we'll be able to scale both block type in an efficient way.