Firestorm
" While I can understand you would think so on first sight, this is simply not true. Instead of thinking about it as an increase in firestorm's radius, you can think of it instead as a relative decrease in the hit box of mobs. As the hit box decreases relative to the total area covered by firestorm, the chances of a fireball hitting that box decreases. If one of those huge bears were to be in the middle of a firestorm, they are more likely to get hit than a monkey. Increasing the area makes bears seem like monkeys. Try imagining a hitbox with a radius equal to the one of firestorm. Every fireball would hit the mob. Now multiply the radius of both the area covered by firestorm and an individual fireball by 5 and you'll notice that the chances of hitting the same mob have decreased drastically. In more mathematical terms, the chances of hitting a mob equal the ratio of (1) the area in which a fireball would hit the mob (2) the area in which a fireball can fall. (1) is equal to pi*(RadiusFireball + RadiusHitbox)^2 (2) is equal to pi*(RadiusFirestorm)^2 The ratio of (1) to (2) is as follows: ( (RadiusFireball + RadiusHitbox) / RadiusFirestorm )^2 As you can see from this formula, the chances of being hit by an individual fireball approaches ( (RadiusFireball) / RadiusFirestorm )^2 as RadiusHitbox becomes relatively small, while it is up to 4 times this value if the hitbox of a mob has a radius equal to the size of that of a fireball. The limit of 100% hit chance is of course reached when RadiusHitbox = RadiusFirestorm - RadiusFireball. |
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If you assume that Firestorm has an area of 10 units, and each fireball has an area of 2 units, then (in this example) each fireball hits 20% of the total area of the spell. Take that same Firestorm and increase its area of effect by +50%. The firestorm now has an area of 15 units, while the fireball has an area of 3 units, then each fireball still hits 20% of the total area of the spell.
Because an enemy occupies the same space within the total area regardless, then it's size and location are irrelevant; both fireballs have a 20% chance to hit any given location within the spell's total aoe. I think it may appear otherwise simply because the fireball's base aoe seems almost negligible to begin with, that the effects of increased aoe do not become so noticeable until higher % increase are achieved. I will be testing this shortly, as I've begun to level my fire witch once again, and plan to use Firestorm + Totem + Culling Strike as part of her build, and will be taking at least the aoe passives in the witch and templear parts of the tree, and possibly the support gem and passives in the middle (don't know yet, I'm building this one "as I go"). I'm not so sure I'll be able to notice the effect, though, as totems are generally capable of spamming a spell at such a rate that the full aoe of its target it likely to be covered in fireballs at all times... Devolving Wilds Land “T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.” Last edited by CanHasPants on Aug 31, 2012, 10:34:05 AM
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it's not realy clear what the firestorm's dps means...
additional tooltip info would be nais |
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"it is damage per bolt (8 bolts without quality or duration boosts). as for the debate above, they already shrunk the spread's size and increased the bolts' sizes. from my guesses, the radius of firestorm itself is about 24 (from 30 of old times) and bolts are about 6 (from 3). i'm obviously wrong on exact numbers but it's better guess than the examples above. likely doesn't mean that much but either way i saw a noticeable improvement on hit ratio of bolts landing. likely not as much as people wanted but +40% makes me feel like i'm using the old firestorm's size with a non boosted cold snap's sized explosions roughly. | |
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You have to calculate the chance of the area of the fireball overlapping with the area of the hitbox of the mob. Simply calculating the coverage of the fireball of the total area doesn't work.
If I may take the liberty of assuming that the radius, rather than the area, is 10 for firestorm and 2 for fireball, then I can illustrate why the hitbox matters as follows: If we place a mob in the middle of the firestorm and the mob has a hitbox of 1 unit, then a fireball with a radius of 2 units will hit the mob when it is within a radius of 1+2=3 units of the center of the firestorm. Take a mob with a hitbox radius of 3 units and the fireball should land within 3+2=5 units of the of the center of the firestorm if you want to hit the mob. " Thanks for the information. The reason I am pointing out that the chances do not remain the same, though, is that I have seen Mark use it as an argument before. I just want to dispel any misconceptions about the mechanics before any other design decisions are made based on them. |
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Assume 50% increased aoe, with a base firestorm area of 24 units and base fireball area of 6 units, and a monster's hit box occupying 4 units area:
The monster currently occupies 16.66% of the firestorm area, and the fireball currently occupies 25% of the firestorm area. With a 50% increase, the monster then occupies 11.11% of the firestorm area, while the fireball still occupies 25% of the firestorm area. Because the fireball occupies 25% of the firestorm's area regardless, I can assume that it has a 25% chance to hit any single point within the overlying area of effect.
Tangent
I am not the math wiz I used to be, so I cannot extrapolate further, but I believe this assumption to be wrong. Something deep within the recesses of my memory is telling me that points nearer to the center of the firestorm's aoe should have a greater chance to be hit than points nearer to its peripheral. However, for the sake of example, I do know that the change between central chance to be hit and peripheral chance to be hit should remain proportional to the expanding aoe of the overlying spell and the expanding of aoe of the fireballs that land within. So for the sake of example, I am using a 25% chance to hit.
However, the monster's hitbox shows a 5.55% reduced area proportional to the area of the overlying spell. So while the fireball should still be as likely to hit any given point within the overlying area of effect, the percentage of points the monster's hitbox occupies will diminish as the area of effect increases. The fireball will have proportionally fewer points it is likely to hit as the area of effect increases. My conclusion? A long and round-about way of saying I agree with you. :) Increasing the area of effect does reduce the likelihood of hitting any given monster. However, this should not be taken into consideration without also acknowledging what is gained: The spell has a greater chance of hitting more monsters as its area expands. Less damage is likely to be assigned to a single creature, while more damage is likely to be assigned to multiple monsters. This makes increased aoe a better option for Totems(imo, because I've had Totems on my mind for the past few days), which spam skills like nobody's business, and less ideal for "hardcast" firestorms. It also inspires a potentially limited use currency item, that could have major implications to character builds: Passive "Scrubbers," which when right clicked, would scrub all (or a portion of) related passive skills from the targeted skill gem. In this case, an AoE Scrubber might diminish the effect of aoe-affecting passive skills on Firestorm while still benefiting other skills (such as Fireball). Devolving Wilds Land “T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.” Last edited by CanHasPants on Aug 31, 2012, 5:45:32 PM
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Here you are a good combo to use this skill
Unavailable i've already explained how it's working herehttp://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/13798/page/2 Some items in this post are currently unavailable.
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"i'd swap chance to ignore for increased duration, could also drop proliferation for same reason: firestorm doesn't nearly deal that much damage for burning. increased duration will work on firestorm and the totem. Some items in this post are currently unavailable.
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" I have every +burn damage from skill tree i can get plus a 70% burning damage from this little jewel Unavailable I really do not need increased duration because the totems clear the way in a time lesser than them duration. Eventually i will use increased duration when I get the sixth missing socket, if i will have enough mana Some items in this post are currently unavailable.
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Any of you guys tried high level firestorm together with Rime Gaze, the level 65 unique? Provides level 15 concentrated effect with no mana cost increase...
If anyone wants to try t out, just PM me. Petrov. |
