(3.2) [Lighty] 2H RT Cyclone: Dope for Beast League & Lab™

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Xavathos wrote:

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6aPMaJIeuKuH wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Slap that Blood Magic on Attacks on Disfavour instead of bleed, and I'll forget all about my Starforge plan...

25% chance to use blood before mana on attack skill? really? :D (bleed only 25% chance now)

GGG can do this, they really have good fantasy.

No, I didn't mean 25% chance. I mean the line on Hezmana for the line on Disfavour.

And 25% chance to bleed was a necessary nerf on Atziri, because of Crimson Dance. 100% would be massively overpowered now with the new potential damage boosts to bleed damage.

Keep in mind that you get 25% chance to bleed with skill-tree weapon nodes (axe/mace/sword), and can additionally spec into much more, although it's not necessary for this build.

That means when using Atziri's, you're actually sitting at 50% chance to bleed, attacking 6+ times per second. That averages to 3 bleed applications per second, before you consider your Totem, etc.

Unfortunately, Bleed still isn't a major source of damage for Cyclone, due to its low base physical damage. I wouldn't even bother spending the point in Crimson Dance, unless I just so happened to have one point left over and couldn't invest it in anything more worthwhile.

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"Archimtiros wrote:

Keep in mind that you get 25% chance to bleed with skill-tree weapon nodes (axe/mace/sword), and can additionally spec into much more, although it's not necessary for this build.

That means when using Atziri's, you're actually sitting at 50% chance to bleed, attacking 6+ times per second. That averages to 3 bleed applications per second, before you consider your Totem, etc.

Unfortunately, Bleed still isn't a major source of damage for Cyclone, due to its low base physical damage. I wouldn't even bother spending the point in Crimson Dance, unless I just so happened to have one point left over and couldn't invest it in anything more worthwhile.

Yes, I think we both know that you get chance to bleed on passives, but we were talking about the weapon specifically, which is 25%.

And while I agree that bleed isn't worthwhile, Crimson Dance at 1 point probably does more still than any other point I could have spent elsewhere. It's not something I'll take early on, maybe lvl 91 or so.

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jeffarese wrote:

Question from one who comes from playing a build that didn't feel solid...

how jaggernaut cannot be solid? it`s massive solid big slower unbreakebl meatball with very big pillar in his hands.


but if you do raider - it movement and damage, but not solid big f**** guy.

Returning to CWDT theme about loosing en-ch. So, if using IC for juggernaut is not really good, what can replace it?

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6aPMaJIeuKuH wrote:

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jeffarese wrote:

Question from one who comes from playing a build that didn't feel solid...

how jaggernaut cannot be solid? it`s massive solid big slower unbreakebl meatball with very big pillar in his hands.


but if you do raider - it movement and damage, but not solid big f**** guy.

Uh... I believe he meant his previous build (whatever class that may have been) that he followed, wasn't solid. He didn't say which class it was, and it's irrelevant to the point he was making.

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Xavathos wrote:

He didn't say which class it was,

it was raider tornado archer.

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Kliops144 wrote:

Returning to CWDT theme about loosing en-ch. So, if using IC for juggernaut is not really good, what can replace it?

Well, I've explained previously why IC isn't good on Juggernaut, with regards to losing valuable charges and elemental damage reduction (our only real weakness). You don't worry about physical damage as a Juggernaut.

What can replace it? Not necessarily anything, you don't NEED to run CWDT something, something. But if you do want to, I would suggest Molten Shell, as it gives flat armour, which scales well with our passives, and maybe a curse. Enfeeble or Temporal Chains perhaps. Link them both to CWDT and Increased Duration in a 4L.

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Uh... I believe he meant his previous build (whatever class that may have been) that he followed, wasn't solid.

Exactly. My previous build (Neversink's Tornado Shot Raider) feels rushed, there are a lot of inconsistencies and people who followed it are really having a hard time with maps.
Also, small upgrades at levels over 70 are really expensive.

I'm new to the game (only played a 65 Firestorm the previous week to 3.0 and now I have a 74 Tornado Shot Raider) and I'm really thinking about creating a new charger following another build. I want a build which is well written, well explained, is very high end viable and not very expensive.

I just wanted the opinion on this from players who have tried it :)

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jeffarese wrote:

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Uh... I believe he meant his previous build (whatever class that may have been) that he followed, wasn't solid.

Exactly. My previous build (Neversink's Tornado Shot Raider) feels rushed, there are a lot of inconsistencies and people who followed it are really having a hard time with maps.
Also, small upgrades at levels over 70 are really expensive.

I'm new to the game (only played a 65 Firestorm the previous week to 3.0 and now I have a 74 Tornado Shot Raider) and I'm really thinking about creating a new charger following another build. I want a build which is well written, well explained, is very high end viable and not very expensive.

I just wanted the opinion on this from players who have tried it :)

NeverSink makes really good builds. That build specifically has been around since the dawn of time itself. It's just a rush to get guides completely solid at launch of major expansions like 3.0, because not all info is available and not all info that is available is definitive. It's like walking on a frozen lake. ;)

Having played Cyclone for many leagues in a row now, I can tell you for sure that this build, for all its current flaws, is essentially solid.

If you want to play it safe, go Juggernaut and don't spec into any build defining things like specific weapon passives or Blood Magic or something, until you're figured out what you want to do with it. The baseline of the build is essentially the same for each class, most things are exactly identical, apart from a few specific key nodes and of course, the start of the tree.

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Archimtiros wrote:

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Shiiro95 wrote:

It was said in here, bosses today have -60% curse effects. Vuln lv 12 of a glove, IMO, don't worth because you already clean trash mobs realy fast.

But if you REALY need to apply Vuln, I'd suggest Witchfire brew flask, helped me a lot before.

Current setup:

BTW a Veruso's with Vuln on hit is worthing less than 30C today.

I'm doing a Berserker Starforge build, actually with 400KDPS (without vuln) + 7K life. I'll test some new mechanics and after finish I'll post here what I've done.

Withfire Brew isn't as nice as you'd think. It's slightly stronger than Vuln on gloves, but you're trading effect for uptime, of which Brew has very little. Frankly, if the boss fight is short enough for Witchfire Brew to cover it, then it's short enough you probably don't need the flask to begin with.

It comes down to opportunity cost - Witchfire Brew has one (takes a flask slot), while corruption on glove does not. If you're still looking for more damage from flasks, you're far better off with Lion's Roar for boss damage.

That's not why I said. Fist I said vuln on bosses will not have much value because of the reductions. And IMO, if he realy needs this boost (not only for bosses), it's better do it on a witchfire because It's lv21 and is very cheaper. But again, I don't think it worths. Like you said, for damage boost on bosses is better get a Lion's Roar (that is just what I got for me).