[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)
" Both options are in the leveling section. I personally found Flame Totem / Firestorm to be slightly faster, despite the fact that Firestorm doesn't benefit as much from the "efficient" nodes you would take en route to level 50/60. Another option with 2.3 will be Vortex/Ice Nova + Frost Bolt, which is personally what I'm going to be trying come June 3rd. @Chrono Tarnished Treasure: look at the level requirement. You might be able to get that from a fairly early Prophecy chain, at which point it would actually be pretty potent for levelling. Something like a normal coral ring and magic movement speed boots. For late game, however, it's not worthwhile, for the purposes of this build whose goal is to provide a balance of survivability & MF. **************** Now. To answer the more general question of "Is Tarnished Treasure Actually Worth it?" Let's take a look at the FULL KIT of gear, assuming that you're unwilling to drop Carcass Jack (since clear speed = effective IIQ, and a larger AoE means you're stopping less, thus, faster clear speed) in order to get the benefit of Tarnished Treasure. For the purposes of this comparison, given that I will assume for the magic items in the Tarnished Treasure variant you will be getting perfect rolls, I will assume the same for the rare rolls on the MF gear for the normal setup, since what we're attempting to do here is a cross-comparison of what's better for MF in a perfect world. So, we're going to go with both prefix/suffix IIR rolls (which means a slight hit to resistances, or life, because we're going to presume that in going for the perfect MF rolls, you're going to have crappy resistances on some items, or no life, etc). Keep in mind this also assumes that you're either a) fine dropping some survivability or b) going to make up for it with defensive-oriented jewels, rather than offensive oriented. So, resistances and life. In other words, you're either going to be sacrificing survivability, or damage. Your discretion.
Tarnished Treasure v Dual Andvarius Full Comparison
Normal Setup Helmet: * Life * Two Resistances * 50% rarity Gloves: * Life * Two Resistances * 32% rarity Goldwyrm * 20% quantity Amulet: * Life * Two Resistances * 20% + 54% rarity Andvarius x 2: * -40% res * 30% + 140% rarity IIR gem: *69% @ 20/20 Net MF (top end): * 20 IIQ / 395% rarity Fun note: With a single-affix for Helmet, Gloves, and Amulet, you get 329% IIR top-end, with perfect rolls. The higher roll on the helmet is a suffix, so you'd eat a resistance slot there. Tarnished Treasure Setup So, there's a way to go full-tilt MF with this as CA, but I'm going to assume that the goal is to still provide at least SOME measure of survivability. Which means the ring slot goes white, and either the gloves or helmet go blue. Because the life roll is highest on the helmet slot, we'll make that rare and we'll make the gloves blue with perfect IIR rolls. Helmet: * Life * Two Resistances * 50% Rarity Gloves (blue): * 32% rarity Goldwyrm: * 20% quantity Ring (white): * 15 rarity Tarnished Treasure: * 14% quantity * 20% + 95% rarity Andvarius: * -20% resistances * 15% + 70% rarity IIR gem: * 69% @ 20/20 Net MF (top end): * 34% IIQ / 366% IIR Fun Note #2: with single-affix rarity for the helmet, you get 34% IIQ / 342% IIR Now for the survivability comparison: Normal Setup Life: * Helmet * Gloves * Amulet Resistances: * -40% (from Andvarius') * + amulet * + gloves * + helmet Tarnished Treasure Setup Life: * Helmet * NO life on gloves,or amulet Resistances: * -20% Andvarius * + Helmet * NO resistances on gloves or amulet In other words, you're losing two life slots, and despite the fact that Andvarius has -20% to elemental resistances, you're actually going to suffer MORE with Tarnished treasure, as you're losing resistances on your amulet AND gloves. All, for what? C Value Comparison Normal Build C = (1 + IIQ/100) * (1 + IIR/100) C = (1 + 20/100) * (1 + 395/100) C = 1.2 * 4.95 C = 5.94 Tarnished Treasure C = (1 + IIQ/100) * (1 + IIR/100) C = (1 + 34/100) * (1 + 366/100) C = 1.34 * 4.66 C = 6.2444 Net Difference: 0.3044 Even IF you manage to get amazingly defensive-rolled jewels, those two life slots that you're missing have a fairly significant impact on your life pool, to the tune of about 350 life, depending on how much increased % you have off the tree and jewels. Factor in that you're going to be sacrificing probably ~ 1.5-2k damage in order to compensate with defensive jewels to buff your resistances and life, it's just not worthwhile to try and run Tarnished Treasure, for the purposes of this build. Especially if you want to be able to push high-mid to high tier maps and/or running Atziri comfortably. That extra little bit of life / damage ends up being a lot more impactful. I prophesy (SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!?) that I'll get this question a lot in the coming days, so I've added it to the FAQ. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018. Last edited by Serleth#4392 on May 27, 2016, 3:37:08 PM
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" This was a good reminder for me to go back through and check the Q&A section after it went up. I noticed I messed up the formatting for one of the questions... Improved formatting: Q: Why not Aurseize too? [spoiler="A:"] An indepth reddit discussion comparing the effects of diminishing returns based on scaling Item Rarity above the balance threshold with Item Quantity.[/spoiler] Also if you have not seen it yet, there is one of the online skill trees that has the new ascendancy nodes updated. http://www.poeplanner.com/ |
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I personally use Emmitt's offline planner, but yeah, there's a few options out there now.
EDIT: thanks for the FAQ catch. Fixed. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018. Last edited by Serleth#4392 on May 27, 2016, 5:59:02 PM
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So I have been talking with some friends about builds for Prophecy, and I said I am going Serleth's CA MF, and immediately they all said MF is dead with a clear speed meta like this. Basically their argument was you can get more items by running maps faster, than running max MF builds like this, especially for solo.
So my question is: which do you think is better, a fast clearer than can run say, 3/4ths of the maps mods, or a max MF build like this, which can run all mods, but clears a little slower? |
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Thing is, this isn't a max MF build. They're right insofar as saying full-tilt MF goes, but if you take a look at my Gorge video, it's not that far behind your mid to mid-high dps build.
I cleared Gorge in something like 3:30? Full dps builds do it in 2:30. So a 45-60s variance in clear speed AND loot? I'd take this build. Their argument is only true if you start dipping into 5m Gorge run type of clear speed. Otherwise, they don't get more items/hr. I do. And I have a significantly higher amount of rares that drop, which means a higher instance of good items that will appear. Also keep in mind that T4 chase items (like Shavs, Windripper, etc) are more rare this patch, so MF, if anything, has a bit more importance when it comes to tilting luck in your favour. That said, there's nothing really wrong with either method as long as you're running T13 maps and selling all your T14 & T15s, or selling the high base types, etc. If you're smart with how you approach what you sell, both work roughly the same with a slight advantage to MFing. The difference really comes down to RNG. In order to really make solid money with a clear speed build, you need LUCK to get good drops, or good alcs, or good map drops to sell, etc. With MF, even if RNG hates you, you're still getting consistent currency no matter what. It's a bit of a read, but I got into a debate with someone about this on reddit a few months ago. Reddit Discussion You'll notice that eventually he basically concedes that it comes down to leveling 6+ Empowers at once and selling them at level 3. Otherwise, MF wins. And he's doing a comparison with a relatively fast build, 3.6 minutes (average, assuming non-linear maps most of the time), while I'm accounting for both clearing AND vendor trips. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018. Last edited by Serleth#4392 on May 27, 2016, 7:37:28 PM
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That is a great explanation. Especially in Perandus, so many uniques were so much more common. I have a feeling a lot of people will have no idea how to balance currency this new league, expecting their 40c carcass jacks again.
You also mentioned mapping in your post. I have always alched 6+ maps, chiseled 9+, and starting with t8s, rerolled for pack size. If I may ask, what is your strategy for rolling maps? Mapping, and rolling maps, is often the most difficult part for most new players in the end game. |
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Honestly, I just do whatever I feel like.
I don't particularly have a strategy because I'm shooting for full challenge completion before anything else, so I just end up kind of naturally building a map pool. If I were to have more pucks to give about rolling maps, I would T1-4: Transmute T5: Transmute/Alc (either way) T6-9: Alc T10+: Chisel + Alc. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018.
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I tend to alc all my maps. If they are already blue I'll scour them first. I'll chisel the highest level I can currently run, and I'll re-roll for pack size if I'm pushing for another level at the time.
Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD
Feel free to message me in game if I'm on. |
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Generally, I don't run any maps 8+ without pack size. Pack size and some IIR/IIQ on a maps is way better, IMHO, than just IIR/IIQ, because you get so many more mobs, that it makes up for the loss in IIR/IIQ.
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Haven't played much recently due to computer issues so I haven't been keeping up much with poe news.
How will this work with prophecy update? Has the skill tree been updated? Last edited by Minzy#2611 on May 28, 2016, 4:19:01 PM
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