PvP popularity and other random thoughts

so because the general opinion is that pvp is stupid, investing in a pvp char is also stupid?



If people actually enjoy pvp then they will invest into a char and participate for the fun of it. If they just follow like sheep w/e is the trend of the moment then they will never give pvp an honest try because they are too close minded.

The problem is that the entire concept of pvp is alien to most people.

Im fine with incentives that don't affect pve (titles and mtxes etc) but I don't think ggg should be going out of their way promoting pvp by tying it to pve so that it suddenly becomes "economically worth it" and not stupid to invest in a pvp char. People should be PvPing for fun of it not because its an easy/alternate way to fund their pve char.

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andkamen wrote:

so because the general opinion is that pvp is stupid, investing in a pvp char is also stupid?



If people actually enjoy pvp then they will invest into a char and participate for the fun of it. If they just follow like sheep w/e is the trend of the moment then they will never give pvp an honest try because they are too close minded.

The problem is that the entire concept of pvp is alien to most people.

Im fine with incentives that don't affect pve (titles and mtxes etc) but I don't think ggg should be going out of their way promoting pvp by tying it to pve so that it suddenly becomes "economically worth it" and not stupid to invest in a pvp char. People should be PvPing for fun of it not because its an easy/alternate way to fund their pve char.

yes *IF* people enjoy it they will invest into it. But the more common situation is they will probably use their pve character or a premade pvp character , get absolutely destroyed by everything and everyone and as a result pvp in their mind has less value and therefore not worth the investment.

I am not ashamed to say this but this was exactly my view of pvp since open beta. and even after making a decent low level dueler which can take me up to just under pro level of pvp, it is not fun murdering noobs.


if i were to suggest changes they would be

1 the HEAVY buffing of gear on premade pvp characters, at the very least all pvp characters should be able to do 60 - 75% of the damage and have 70% of the durability of top tier builds.

we can do this since we can bind said items to the pvp characters. this still enables room for improvement but it allows anyone to get in to pvp and be dangerous to Anyone for zero investment.

zero investment to be competitive is crucial since you get nothing in terms of progression out of pvp.

you argue getting competitive in pvp requires a few exalted in investment, that is not good enough. not for the majority of the community anyway.

at the very least all casters should get 1 +1 to skills armor piece and 1 level 2 empower gem. It has to happen empower and a +1 item is 100% of a caster these days.

weapon builds need access to good high damage rare items, that have at-least 3 complimenting damage mods.

2 there should be a pvp only orb type that has a mild impact outside of pvp. I dont recommend rewarding normal currency since pvp really should not be even indirect competition for pve in terms of wealth. but a novel orb that does something interesting but not meta or economy breaking would serve as an interesting carrot for players.

(perhaps these orbs could be low level versions of higher orbs) so like a low level exalted orb that only works on ilevel 36 or less gear , or the same for low level version of chaos etc.

such orbs wont matter much in the economy since most crafting is high level. it also would serve as a method of progressing ones low level pvp characters , which they can use to perfect play styles for the possible transition to high level dueling.


3 i would also stop making events exclusive to one area.. like only standard or only high level or only temp league. This makes players guess what league to invest in and spreads the resources of the poor members of the community.

have preferred competition sure on a preferred area , but give a few events for the other areas so the characters players use aren't collecting dust somewhere for 2+seasons worth .


4 there should probably be a prebuff time window for casters and summoners to actually summon most of their stuff before the round starts the fact that one has to recast their auras , recast their buffs , summon their minions and lay their traps at the start of every god damn round does nothing more than limit the viability of complex pvp builds.
(this prebuff should take place out side the actual combat area to prevent casters lacing the area with mines traps and crap like that)

or better yet just allow characters to enter arenas with the shit on already, it is not like the function doesn't exist you spawn with all the shit on and then pvp manually turns everything off

i never through of this but that whole dance you have to do activating stuff at the start of every round is extremely annoying.

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andkamen wrote:

If people actually enjoy pvp then they will invest into a char and participate for the fun of it. [...]

But how should they know wether they enjoy PvP wihtout trying it out. The problem is that you have to invest significant amounts of currency just to try out PvP (or get wrecked with your PvE char or a premade) what deters many players.

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candoerfer wrote:

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andkamen wrote:

If people actually enjoy pvp then they will invest into a char and participate for the fun of it. [...]

But how should they know wether they enjoy PvP wihtout trying it out. The problem is that you have to invest significant amounts of currency just to try out PvP (or get wrecked with your PvE char or a premade) what deters many players.

This is not the only game that offers pvp so the concept isn't alien per say but a lot of people have had very limited exposure to it (outside of poe included). Some people just don't enjoy that aspect of gaming, where as other just listen to what the general opinion is and accept it as fact.

The problem is not that they need to throw a few exalts to make a viable pvp char (monsta cookie has won demis with 2-4ex invested in chars). The problem is knowing how to spend those few exalts. What to prioritize, how to find gear of craft it efficiently.

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andkamen wrote:

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candoerfer wrote:

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andkamen wrote:

If people actually enjoy pvp then they will invest into a char and participate for the fun of it. [...]

But how should they know wether they enjoy PvP wihtout trying it out. The problem is that you have to invest significant amounts of currency just to try out PvP (or get wrecked with your PvE char or a premade) what deters many players.

This is not the only game that offers pvp so the concept isn't alien per say but a lot of people have had very limited exposure to it (outside of poe included). Some people just don't enjoy that aspect of gaming, where as other just listen to what the general opinion is and accept it as fact.

The problem is not that they need to throw a few exalts to make a viable pvp char (monsta cookie has won demis with 2-4ex invested in chars). The problem is knowing how to spend those few exalts. What to prioritize, how to find gear of craft it efficiently.

Isn't like just the legacy facebreaker worth 2-4 ex?

http://poe.trade/search/aumkiniohuwono

Sure if you want to min max on sc. You can buy a low 900% for 2-3ex probably.

I was referring to monstacookie's performance in season 2 where you dont get legacy facebreakers.

He got 1st place with the exploding arrow build?
Nicely done...

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I've made 4 builds during season 2. 3 of them were LLD and 1 was HLD. Each of these builds has won at least 3 or 4 demigods, even though their price tags differ greatly. LLD1: 20 exalts LLD2: 4 exalts LLD3: 50 chaos HLD1: 2 exalts

quoting from a comment he made on reddit. But sure keep thinking that its impossible to do well unless you invest 20ex

And since when is a build viable only if it wins demis? Isnt top 5 or top 10 good enough?

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andkamen wrote:

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I've made 4 builds during season 2. 3 of them were LLD and 1 was HLD. Each of these builds has won at least 3 or 4 demigods, even though their price tags differ greatly. LLD1: 20 exalts LLD2: 4 exalts LLD3: 50 chaos HLD1: 2 exalts

quoting from a comment he made on reddit. But sure keep thinking that its impossible to do well unless you invest 20ex

And since when is a build viable only if it wins demis? Isnt top 5 or top 10 good enough?

If this is for me, i wasn't being sarcastic. I meant the nicely done since exploding arrow is hard on lld. I think he got the demis you are refering to on ffa sarn arena with a facebreaker build because i checked his profile. It's really hard to do well on swiss with this budget though.

Oh, so an experienced PvP player can perfom well with a budget build, who would have expected this? Since this is about making PvP more popular, comparing everything to what already established PvPers are capable of doing does not lead to any results. Instead we have to make PvP more accessible for newcomers and I promise you that those will definately not win events with a 2 ex build.