How does everyone feel about the new rewards / points required?

s 10 sig race

Imo the whole maphack/RNG discussion is utterly pointless. It gives the impression that the competition and maybe winning races is the main objective. Aside from the top racers (how many people are we talking here? Maybe 30 persons.) it ain’t an issue for the majority joining races. I’ll never have a shot at winning a race. I finish #252 or #511. So what is the reason people not named Terrex or Helman join races? It sure ain’t about winning or becoming better (heck I don’t do sports in rl because of that bs) and therefore requiring an even playground so the best may win.
The number of people participating in the signature race have dwindled down to 400-500 per race. If you subtract the mules and chars lower level 5 which probably got rerolled we are talking about 279-411 people actually playing the last three 2 hour sigs. And you are talking about the impact of maphack/RNG on the competitiveness of the top ten? Seriously?
So why are people like me participating in races (or used to)? For two reasons: The race format is an alternative to the usual gameplay. Why join a 2 hour race if I can do the exact same thing in the regular game on a char that will be leveled instead of deleted because it gets transferred to a league i don’t play? Like I said, I’m not good enough to have a shot at winning. Descent races and cutthroat were a refreshing alternation from the farming routines of the game. Second: The prices. This may be a surprise to some folks who uphold some ancient honor code that real sportsmen should display an impeccable character and compete for mere glory and honor only (and maybe the queen). But for the vast majority the chance to win prices is what makes them participate in racing. For whatever reasons GGG decided to replace descend with this utterly boring 2 hour sig and also cut back on the prices (while also making it more difficult to achieve). Result: Participation numbers that soon would have run the risk of dropping into the 2-digits range.
On the other side this keeps me optimistic for the future as it doesn’t take much to make racing attractive again for more people: Get back the non-standard formats, cut back on the length of sig races (don’t talk longer than 20 minutes in rl; don’t race longer than 60 minutes in games) and change the price/points structure. Imo having unique maps instead of gear as prices would draw a bigger audience especially towards the end of the race season as winning a map via lottery has no diminishing returns whereas winning a third or fourth fencoil is just tedious.

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Bada_Bing wrote:

Imo the whole maphack/RNG discussion is utterly pointless. It gives the impression that the competition and maybe winning races is the main objective. Aside from the top racers (how many people are we talking here? Maybe 30 persons.) it ain’t an issue for the majority joining races. I’ll never have a shot at winning a race. I finish #252 or #511. So what is the reason people not named Terrex or Helman join races? It sure ain’t about winning or becoming better (heck I don’t do sports in rl because of that bs) and therefore requiring an even playground so the best may win.
The number of people participating in the signature race have dwindled down to 400-500 per race. If you subtract the mules and chars lower level 5 which probably got rerolled we are talking about 279-411 people actually playing the last three 2 hour sigs. And you are talking about the impact of maphack/RNG on the competitiveness of the top ten? Seriously?
So why are people like me participating in races (or used to)? For two reasons: The race format is an alternative to the usual gameplay. Why join a 2 hour race if I can do the exact same thing in the regular game on a char that will be leveled instead of deleted because it gets transferred to a league i don’t play? Like I said, I’m not good enough to have a shot at winning. Descent races and cutthroat were a refreshing alternation from the farming routines of the game. Second: The prices. This may be a surprise to some folks who uphold some ancient honor code that real sportsmen should display an impeccable character and compete for mere glory and honor only (and maybe the queen). But for the vast majority the chance to win prices is what makes them participate in racing. For whatever reasons GGG decided to replace descend with this utterly boring 2 hour sig and also cut back on the prices (while also making it more difficult to achieve). Result: Participation numbers that soon would have run the risk of dropping into the 2-digits range.
On the other side this keeps me optimistic for the future as it doesn’t take much to make racing attractive again for more people: Get back the non-standard formats, cut back on the length of sig races (don’t talk longer than 20 minutes in rl; don’t race longer than 60 minutes in games) and change the price/points structure. Imo having unique maps instead of gear as prices would draw a bigger audience especially towards the end of the race season as winning a map via lottery has no diminishing returns whereas winning a third or fourth fencoil is just tedious.

LOL

Why do anything if you aren't automatically the best?

Maybe put in some time and earn something or develop a skillset.

can we stop using the world skill in the poe forums ? It's an arpg, if there was a ladder out there where games are ranked considering skill poe would be the ground supporting it

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terrex wrote:

"

Bada_Bing wrote:

Imo the whole maphack/RNG discussion is utterly pointless. It gives the impression that the competition and maybe winning races is the main objective. Aside from the top racers (how many people are we talking here? Maybe 30 persons.) it ain’t an issue for the majority joining races. I’ll never have a shot at winning a race. I finish #252 or #511. So what is the reason people not named Terrex or Helman join races? It sure ain’t about winning or becoming better (heck I don’t do sports in rl because of that bs) and therefore requiring an even playground so the best may win.
The number of people participating in the signature race have dwindled down to 400-500 per race. If you subtract the mules and chars lower level 5 which probably got rerolled we are talking about 279-411 people actually playing the last three 2 hour sigs. And you are talking about the impact of maphack/RNG on the competitiveness of the top ten? Seriously?
So why are people like me participating in races (or used to)? For two reasons: The race format is an alternative to the usual gameplay. Why join a 2 hour race if I can do the exact same thing in the regular game on a char that will be leveled instead of deleted because it gets transferred to a league i don’t play? Like I said, I’m not good enough to have a shot at winning. Descent races and cutthroat were a refreshing alternation from the farming routines of the game. Second: The prices. This may be a surprise to some folks who uphold some ancient honor code that real sportsmen should display an impeccable character and compete for mere glory and honor only (and maybe the queen). But for the vast majority the chance to win prices is what makes them participate in racing. For whatever reasons GGG decided to replace descend with this utterly boring 2 hour sig and also cut back on the prices (while also making it more difficult to achieve). Result: Participation numbers that soon would have run the risk of dropping into the 2-digits range.
On the other side this keeps me optimistic for the future as it doesn’t take much to make racing attractive again for more people: Get back the non-standard formats, cut back on the length of sig races (don’t talk longer than 20 minutes in rl; don’t race longer than 60 minutes in games) and change the price/points structure. Imo having unique maps instead of gear as prices would draw a bigger audience especially towards the end of the race season as winning a map via lottery has no diminishing returns whereas winning a third or fourth fencoil is just tedious.

LOL

Why do anything if you aren't automatically the best?

Maybe put in some time and earn something or develop a skillset.

I gave you two reasons why.
It may shake your little ivory tower called competitive racing a bit, but most people give the proverbial shit if they ever be able to break the 90 minute barrier in killing dominus or even be able to win a race.
An immense number of people play soccer, ride a bike for a lot of reasons, joining the national team and being “the best at it” actually being the least of it. I have no problem if your reason for racing is finishing first but I would welcome if you refrain from giving me advice on how and why I play.

"

Bada_Bing wrote:

I have no problem if your reason for racing is finishing first but I would welcome if you refrain from giving me advice on how and why I play.

There's something called signature races for people like us..and other races for people like you.

So you should take your own advice and shush about our legitimate requests for an even playing field on a single race format designed for us competitive people.

"Well, if it doesn't affect me, its a waste of time!". Get over yourself. Cheaters do affect you too - They have a far greater chance, multiple times over, at winning the race lotteries than you do. Perhaps you didn't bother to find out how that worked? Heh.


P.S: My eyes hurt from reading your literal wall of text. Jesus fuck. Please, learn to paragraph.

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Bada_Bing wrote:

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terrex wrote:

"

Bada_Bing wrote:

Imo the whole maphack/RNG discussion is utterly pointless. It gives the impression that the competition and maybe winning races is the main objective. Aside from the top racers (how many people are we talking here? Maybe 30 persons.) it ain’t an issue for the majority joining races. I’ll never have a shot at winning a race. I finish #252 or #511. So what is the reason people not named Terrex or Helman join races? It sure ain’t about winning or becoming better (heck I don’t do sports in rl because of that bs) and therefore requiring an even playground so the best may win.
The number of people participating in the signature race have dwindled down to 400-500 per race. If you subtract the mules and chars lower level 5 which probably got rerolled we are talking about 279-411 people actually playing the last three 2 hour sigs. And you are talking about the impact of maphack/RNG on the competitiveness of the top ten? Seriously?
So why are people like me participating in races (or used to)? For two reasons: The race format is an alternative to the usual gameplay. Why join a 2 hour race if I can do the exact same thing in the regular game on a char that will be leveled instead of deleted because it gets transferred to a league i don’t play? Like I said, I’m not good enough to have a shot at winning. Descent races and cutthroat were a refreshing alternation from the farming routines of the game. Second: The prices. This may be a surprise to some folks who uphold some ancient honor code that real sportsmen should display an impeccable character and compete for mere glory and honor only (and maybe the queen). But for the vast majority the chance to win prices is what makes them participate in racing. For whatever reasons GGG decided to replace descend with this utterly boring 2 hour sig and also cut back on the prices (while also making it more difficult to achieve). Result: Participation numbers that soon would have run the risk of dropping into the 2-digits range.
On the other side this keeps me optimistic for the future as it doesn’t take much to make racing attractive again for more people: Get back the non-standard formats, cut back on the length of sig races (don’t talk longer than 20 minutes in rl; don’t race longer than 60 minutes in games) and change the price/points structure. Imo having unique maps instead of gear as prices would draw a bigger audience especially towards the end of the race season as winning a map via lottery has no diminishing returns whereas winning a third or fourth fencoil is just tedious.

LOL

Why do anything if you aren't automatically the best?

Maybe put in some time and earn something or develop a skillset.

I gave you two reasons why.
It may shake your little ivory tower called competitive racing a bit, but most people give the proverbial shit if they ever be able to break the 90 minute barrier in killing dominus or even be able to win a race.
An immense number of people play soccer, ride a bike for a lot of reasons, joining the national team and being “the best at it” actually being the least of it. I have no problem if your reason for racing is finishing first but I would welcome if you refrain from giving me advice on how and why I play.

I can't even do a 90min Piety. People just come up with ridiculous things with no research or without applying themselves. Perfect example here.

Your logic to me is just sad, in order words "I dont want to try because I cant win". If you only care about winning thats one thing but if you have those expectations for everything then you must be a champion irl. Racing is tough, specially on the highest level of competition, each mistake is very costly. Not everyone wants to be put into that scenario or have the the feel of wanting to push. That is perfectly fine. Saying you don't try because you wont win is just sad, how do you start to begin to get better at something in the first place?

You half apply your logic to somethings then fully apply it to others. You eat everyday, are you the fastet or best eater? How the f does that even work.

There's always mixed opinions on what constitutes a good race season.

There seems to be this polar opposition between top racers and casual racers and the thought that GGG has to choose a side when designing a race season. I don't think this is necessarily true.

I've been racing for a long time. I started out being terrible at races (as everyone does) and i raced just for fun. Back when i played PoE, it was mostly solo self found so i don't really care about the economy. Even to this day, i have never, ever, sold a single race reward.
Racing was fun and I was intrigued how so many people were so much better so i tried to improve.
As i got better, my goals changed... I went from "just racing for fun" to "i want to win a solo demi each season" and eventually to "i want to win a signature demi each season".

This is just to say that different racers have different goals. You don't consider competition and winning a race the main objective but there are others who do. Just like I would still race even if there were no points/race rewards because what i care about is the signature demi, but other people's goal is to get the sweet alt art items and that's fine.

Also, don't take this derogatorily. This was my personal experience and not everyone who becomes a top racer has the same goals that i do. I believe there might be some top racers out there who could compete at the highest level but they race just for the rewards. Your experience in racing does not correlate directly to your goals.

So how do you balance the different needs/goals that different racers have? I think GGG solved this problem long ago. It's called the Signature Race. Although considered by many to be just the most common race of the season or the "theme" race of the season, it was designed with the intention of being the highest form of competition. It is a race format catered to the top racers which tries to minimize RNG and provide a basis where we reward skill as much as possible in a high variance game. Its not a perfect concept but its a pretty damn good one.

Thats why if you search these forums, you will see me complaining about Descent Champions being a terrible choice for a signature race for a variety of reasons. Does that mean I want the race to be removed from the season? No. I just want it to not be the signature race.

Thats also why I personally don't like when you or people on forums/reddit/podcast etc. say what should and shouldn't be the signature race.
Don't take this personally. I value your feedback on a race season as a whole but the signature race was designed for top racers. Thus, it should be top racers providing feedback on what and why certain race formats are better or worse for being the signature.

With the signature out of the way, it leaves plenty of room in a race season to have different formats. Non-vanilla races like EL / D / DC, boss kill races, party races, modded races like turbo / exiles everywhere etc. I'm personally not a huge fan but i understand that people are and for that reason, I don't want those races removed.
If you race for the rewards, you should be the one giving feedback if the rewards are good or bad or if they are too hard or too easy to get.

Regarding cheating, i'm pretty sure everyone agrees it hurts the integrity of racing and the lack of action for a very long time proves that they go unpunished and as time goes by more and more people will cheat and more and more people will quit.

So i just ask you, when giving feedback about a race season, try to remember that different people have different goals and one aspect of the race season might not be the best for you or it might not affect you but it will others.

How does everyone feel about the new rewards / points required?


Looking forward to Season 10, it would be awesome to see: 25 point alternative art Sadima's Gloves. 40 point alternative art Wanderlust's. 90 point Goldrim.

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terrex wrote:

I can't even do a 90min Piety. People just come up with ridiculous things with no research or without applying themselves. Perfect example here.

Well Helman is on the verge on breaking that barrier and in Piety races it is the threshold that seperates the winner(s) from the rest.

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terrex wrote:

Your logic to me is just sad, in order words "I dont want to try because I cant win".

I never said that. There are multiple (unconditional!) reasons one joins a race. I personally set my goal at reaching a certain level bracket for example. I try but i don't compete for the win.

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Lyralei wrote:

There's something called signature races for people like us..and other races for people like you.

If you are ok with the consequence that only a few dozen will participate in sig races in the future, fine.

May i remind you on what you have written about developement resources? If the dwindling player base in races leads to GGG redirecting their developement time away from races, then the most important question should be: what causes players to leave races/rejoin them?

I fully understand how bothersome maphacks are for competitive racers, but i ain't what most people turns away from races. If that can't be stopped, the maphacking will become a moot point because there won't be any more races.

Once a ship is sinking arguing about blind passengers seems a bit secondary.


@Terrex
see? More paragraphs. I DO try to improve constantly in every aspect of my life.

Next time i'll try to respond in haikus.