Please do not start balancing skills around PvP

Some of us love to theorycraft builds. And naturally, once those builds reach level of excellency, they are bound to dominate over the regular gamer who just clicks around the skill tree with attitude of "OH +4% more damage!"

I sincerely request that you will not start balancing / nerf batting things due to community whining of something being overpowered.

Example: Frost witch builds, extremely easy to counter with passives alone, then you can add it items for additional effect. Still, these PvP forums are filled with nerf requests to witches who primarily use frost.

Frost witches are not OP at all. With can not be frozen + some poison damage, they are peace of cake. Or even without poison damage in most cases.

I only dont like that it forces everyone to have imunne to freeze if they want to compete against frost witch.

totally disagree, pve is easy to balance via balancing mobs rather than skills, pvp can only be balanced one way.

balance skills for pvp, then rebalance pve by changing the mobs to fit the pvp balanced classes

there is no reason to deny pvp players, we can have our cake and eat it too

Good point.

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Ramanuga wrote:

I only dont like that it forces everyone to have imunne to freeze if they want to compete against frost witch.

Isn't that a defining quality of an overpowered mechanic?

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Nehemia wrote:

Some of us love to theorycraft builds. And naturally, once those builds reach level of excellency, they are bound to dominate over the regular gamer who just clicks around the skill tree with attitude of "OH +4% more damage!"

I sincerely request that you will not start balancing / nerf batting things due to community whining of something being overpowered.

Example: Frost witch builds, extremely easy to counter with passives alone, then you can add it items for additional effect. Still, these PvP forums are filled with nerf requests to witches who primarily use frost.

You could have just said "I spam Flicker Strike/Bear Trap and don't want them to get nerfed" and saved yourself some time.

No reasonable person would conclude that PVP is balanced right now. The only possible explanation for anyone saying otherwise is that that person is using one of the currently OP builds and doesn't want it to get nerfed. Flicker Strike in particular has literally zero counterplay; Bear Trap can be dodged but still does entirely too much damage and stuns for too long. But I don't suppose these objections matter to someone who is arguing against the very idea of balance. I'm not worried, though; these skills will get nerfed, and quite substantially, because PVP is a major draw to the game and if it doesn't at least make an attempt to be balanced GGG will lose customers.

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AValidAccountName wrote:

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Nehemia wrote:

Some of us love to theorycraft builds. And naturally, once those builds reach level of excellency, they are bound to dominate over the regular gamer who just clicks around the skill tree with attitude of "OH +4% more damage!"

I sincerely request that you will not start balancing / nerf batting things due to community whining of something being overpowered.

Example: Frost witch builds, extremely easy to counter with passives alone, then you can add it items for additional effect. Still, these PvP forums are filled with nerf requests to witches who primarily use frost.

You could have just said "I spam Flicker Strike/Bear Trap and don't want them to get nerfed" and saved yourself some time.

No reasonable person would conclude that PVP is balanced right now. The only possible explanation for anyone saying otherwise is that that person is using one of the currently OP builds and doesn't want it to get nerfed. Flicker Strike in particular has literally zero counterplay; Bear Trap can be dodged but still does entirely too much damage and stuns for too long. But I don't suppose these objections matter to someone who is arguing against the very idea of balance. I'm not worried, though; these skills will get nerfed, and quite substantially, because PVP is a major draw to the game and if it doesn't at least make an attempt to be balanced GGG will lose customers.

To you, balance equals tons of nerfs ala themepark RPGs. To me, balance means that there isn't a single powerful resource available. And a hint; I play bow duelist, flicker strike with bows? Not sure if that's a wise plan. Bear trap stuns? How about some stun resistance and / or stun immunity. Frost bullshit? Frost resistances / avoidances to freeze etc. If you think your all damage build will be viable in PvP, think again. The game is balanced in a sense that its counters and strategies that beat the game. A proper non-gimped build is more than damage. After years of playing games such as Shadowbane, I can conclude that balance isn't achieved by massive nerfs and boosts, that only lead to concept of "flavor of the month." Flicker strike, zero counter-play? The guy isn't omnislashing you, time the shit correctly.

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Nehemia wrote:

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AValidAccountName wrote:

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Nehemia wrote:

Some of us love to theorycraft builds. And naturally, once those builds reach level of excellency, they are bound to dominate over the regular gamer who just clicks around the skill tree with attitude of "OH +4% more damage!"

I sincerely request that you will not start balancing / nerf batting things due to community whining of something being overpowered.

Example: Frost witch builds, extremely easy to counter with passives alone, then you can add it items for additional effect. Still, these PvP forums are filled with nerf requests to witches who primarily use frost.

You could have just said "I spam Flicker Strike/Bear Trap and don't want them to get nerfed" and saved yourself some time.

No reasonable person would conclude that PVP is balanced right now. The only possible explanation for anyone saying otherwise is that that person is using one of the currently OP builds and doesn't want it to get nerfed. Flicker Strike in particular has literally zero counterplay; Bear Trap can be dodged but still does entirely too much damage and stuns for too long. But I don't suppose these objections matter to someone who is arguing against the very idea of balance. I'm not worried, though; these skills will get nerfed, and quite substantially, because PVP is a major draw to the game and if it doesn't at least make an attempt to be balanced GGG will lose customers.

To you, balance equals tons of nerfs ala themepark RPGs. To me, balance means that there isn't a single powerful resource available. And a hint; I play bow duelist, flicker strike with bows? Not sure if that's a wise plan. Bear trap stuns? How about some stun resistance and / or stun immunity. Frost bullshit? Frost resistances / avoidances to freeze etc. If you think your all damage build will be viable in PvP, think again. The game is balanced in a sense that its counters and strategies that beat the game. A proper non-gimped build is more than damage. After years of playing games such as Shadowbane, I can conclude that balance isn't achieved by massive nerfs and boosts, that only lead to concept of "flavor of the month." Flicker strike, zero counter-play? The guy isn't omnislashing you, time the shit correctly.

Haha, as if Bear Trap won't one-shot you from 5k+ health. Ice magic is the only OP tactic that's actually counterable, and it still requires all players to invest in a specific mod, meaning they lose life or other vital stats in exchange. And as for Flicker Strike, they don't have to keep using just that; they only use it to get to you, at which point they can unleash any number of skills that actually do omnislash you, and Flicker Strike again when you try to get away.

Yes, balance is achieved through buffs and nerfs, because there is literally no other way to achieve it. When something is OP, you nerf it. That's what balance is - making sure there's a level playing field.

Bear trap one shots +5k? That would only mean that against even the weaker numbers of armor (~20%) it would deal +6k physical damage, and keep in mind that's the bare minimum. Perhaps with a critical strike. Not to mention, its a trap, you walk into it yourself.

And about your talk about flicker strike, I can clearly see your builds weakness lies in someone getting to melee range. Yes, flicker strike is powerful because of that, it allows you to reach melee range with certainity. But that doesn't mean its overpowered. Builds that can stand their ground don't really care if something is directly in front of them, shit for those who cannot take pounding.

Counters, counters, counters. If something counters you, that isn't overpowered. And real balance can only be achieved through making sure nothing is too powerful in comparison to others, I've yet witnessed such thing. Everything has a weakness, and if it has weakness, its in balance. When we see a invincible build that has absolutely no weaknesses, only massive strengths, then I call forth the nerf bat request myself.