Things to improve in the Sarn Arena

man the first thing we need is to incentivate A LOT of ppl to do pvp (by adding prizes or whatever you think can work), and THEN try to balance things around. atm you are trying to balance/fix thing around what like 10 ppl say, so i think will be better to hear a lot more ppl when they will actively pvp.

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Rhys wrote:

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

Seriously with the PvP queues crashing and people being kicked offline and not being able to regroup it makes the arena hard to organize.

I realize it's been a while since this post, but is this still a problem for you guys? (I'm assuming these are NOT client crashes, but server crashes.)

Edit: Flask refill on death for FFA is probably a good idea.

im not sure if its still going on because i havnt done many 3v3's recently, but back when we would run them regularly in HLD there would be times were some, or even all, players would disconnect at the same time, and it was always at the start of a round. (and the forest map was notorious for dc's) But we wouldnt disconnect during the queue.

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tempallo wrote:

man the first thing we need is to incentivate A LOT of ppl to do pvp (by adding prizes or whatever you think can work), and THEN try to balance things around. atm you are trying to balance/fix thing around what like 10 ppl say, so i think will be better to hear a lot more ppl when they will actively pvp.

i agree with you 100%, literally anything that is added as some kind of reward for spending time pvping will bring tons of people over.

Personally i would like to see back pack attachments that people could get after a certain amount of duels/wins, maybe starting at 100 duels and then bumping it up to 500/1000/2500/5000 for the following tiers.

Other suggestions:

animate guardian should act as a 'player' instead of a monster, atm most people are putting bramblejack unique chest piece on their guardian so when its hit it reflects 40% of melee damage back to the attacker. The problem is the damage penalty isnt applied on a guardian so the players with rediculous amount of dmg (mainly crit builds) kill them self instantly if they crit ur minion. i have a minion on my lvl 40 arena pvper and i bring him to merciless occasionally and its hilarious to see lvl 90+ crit builds with hundreds of exalts worth of gear flicker onto my minion and instantly die. Even as a non crit melee character ive reflected 2-3k damage to my self when i hit one of those guardians.

also fix the guardian so that to respawn it you actually have to cast it instead of it just respawning whenever you use a flask, trap/mine, even flicker respawns ur guardian...

another bug that ive noticed with guardians is that when you put a deaths oath on them it seems like it does A LOT more damage that it should. for example i take about the same damage from a guardian with deaths oath as i do from 4 stacks of a level 20 viper strike

ps. im glad you guys are finally posting on the pvp feedback thread again, i use to use this forum alot but i stopped because i was sick of waiting and hearing nothing about pvp changes for so long

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Rhys wrote:

{rematch suggestions}

This sounds a little too complicated to me.

I think all we want is to have the pvp queues act more intelligently.

For example, if everyone in my 6-man party joins the 3v3 queue, we should always be paired against each other. If the 6 of us queue up for 6v6 (if this even exists, I don't remember!), then we should all be put on 1 6-man team. It should not matter what gateway or instance or whatever each of us are in. This would make rematches sufficiently easy (we all would just queue up again), and make playing our first game a lot easier too!

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Rhys wrote:

Well, at the end of PvP, portals are opened which send everyone "home" to their naturally preferred town, which is the optimal way to go for people who want to go back to the main game. Unfortunately, this is not ideal for people who want a rematch.

The easiest solution I can think of would be to have a /rematch command that you can use after a PvP match ends to restart it, and maybe also a /random_rematch which would also shuffle the teams around.

There might be problems with too many objects (minion corpses, old spell effects etc.) lying around but I think we can apply the cleanup trick we use in FFA to manage things.

Since some people may genuinely want to leave, the /rematch command would in essence need to be a vote, and so only once everyone has voted can the rematch begin. If at least half the votes are for a /random_rematch, the teams can get shuffled also.

Perhaps a /swap_rematch would be useful to swap the teams around, in the case the map is not mirrored?

What do yo guys think?

/rematch

user calling the command: "You have called a rematch vote"
users who were part of the match: "A user has called a rematch. Type /accept to join."
success: "Vote succesful"
error: "Voting time has ended. The vote was unsuccessful"

If successful: Load all players back into arena and randomly roll a map.

You won't need to "clean up" a used arena. I'm sure most players would like a chance at a different map the second time around. Also one command only is less clunky/complicated. A good temporary fix nonetheless. The real issue is queues work per instance not per gateway.

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oowarpigoo wrote:

im not sure if its still going on because i havnt done many 3v3's recently, but back when we would run them regularly in HLD there would be times were some, or even all, players would disconnect at the same time, and it was always at the start of a round. (and the forest map was notorious for dc's) But we wouldnt disconnect during the queue.

I believe this was fixed awhile ago. Haven't seen it happen for quite some time.

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oowarpigoo wrote:

animate guardian should act as a 'player' instead of a monster, atm most people are putting bramblejack unique chest piece on their guardian so when its hit it reflects 40% of melee damage back to the attacker. The problem is the damage penalty isnt applied on a guardian so the players with rediculous amount of dmg (mainly crit builds) kill them self instantly if they crit ur minion. i have a minion on my lvl 40 arena pvper and i bring him to merciless occasionally and its hilarious to see lvl 90+ crit builds with hundreds of exalts worth of gear flicker onto my minion and instantly die. Even as a non crit melee character ive reflected 2-3k damage to my self when i hit one of those guardians.

I think why the damage is being scaled so high is because the bramblejack is being paired with the punishment curse. So you have the 40% from bramble plus 65% from a 20/20 punishment.

Bramble is based on damage taken though, and punishment on damage dealt, so they aren't exactly comparable in that regard. Still, they are highly synergistic.

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Firebrand76 wrote:

I think why the damage is being scaled so high is because the bramblejack is being paired with the punishment curse. So you have the 40% from bramble plus 65% from a 20/20 punishment.

Bramble is based on damage taken though, and punishment on damage dealt, so they aren't exactly comparable in that regard. Still, they are highly synergistic.

u dont need to pair it with punishment for it to be extremely effective, i dont use punishment and many times ive seen high level crit pvpers 1 shot them self. Even with whirl blades i see it all the time, high dps critter comes along with whirl, hits my guardian and he drops dead.

i personally havent been killed by it but i still think it should be fixed because it is pretty broken to see a simple 1c piece on a gaurdian can 1 shot people with 500+ ex worth of gear.

and yeah bramble jack is based on damage taken, thats why its so effective because i believe that when you hit a guardian you actually do full damage like the damage you would do if you were in pve, thats why when someone hits a guardian for 30-50k physical damage(isnt all that uncommon with high crit dmg) you would easily be able to kill your self just from the 40% physical reflect.

Edit: I agree with you dulla, that would fix the problem. if they didnt respawn on pretty much every action you do it wouldnt be nearly as good as it is in its current state.

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oowarpigoo wrote:

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Firebrand76 wrote:

I think why the damage is being scaled so high is because the bramblejack is being paired with the punishment curse. So you have the 40% from bramble plus 65% from a 20/20 punishment.

Bramble is based on damage taken though, and punishment on damage dealt, so they aren't exactly comparable in that regard. Still, they are highly synergistic.

u dont need to pair it with punishment for it to be extremely effective, i dont use punishment and many times ive seen high level crit pvpers 1 shot them self. Even with whirl blades i see it all the time, high dps critter comes along with whirl, hits my guardian and he drops dead.

As a crit dagger, I think guardians are ok the way they are (there are way to deal with it), the only big issue I see is the fact that they respawn with every action in the arena, they should make it so you can have it respawn only when you respawn also, like in duels 1v1/3v3/etc

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Rhys wrote:

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GreenDude wrote:

I've never experienced a crash during queue or anything described there, not lately anyway.

OK, good. Just checking. There haven't really been any crash dumps generated that look related to PvP queues, but I just wanted to make sure.

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GreenDude wrote:

However the difficulty of organizing these matches is still there. Mainly because Europeans and Americans are dumped into two different instances even when partied. Furthermore, the queue system is based on who is in your town. If it was at least based on your gateway, we would have an easier time. Lastly; if we want to randomize the teams, we usually go all in the same instance (which is a pain) and then queue up. The issue is that when the match is over, everyone gets thrown in random places and setting it all up again is a pain especially when parties are limited to 6 but teams can be 4v4/5v5/6v6 (8/10/12 players).

Well, at the end of PvP, portals are opened which send everyone "home" to their naturally preferred town, which is the optimal way to go for people who want to go back to the main game. Unfortunately, this is not ideal for people who want a rematch.

The easiest solution I can think of would be to have a /rematch command that you can use after a PvP match ends to restart it, and maybe also a /random_rematch which would also shuffle the teams around.

There might be problems with too many objects (minion corpses, old spell effects etc.) lying around but I think we can apply the cleanup trick we use in FFA to manage things.

Since some people may genuinely want to leave, the /rematch command would in essence need to be a vote, and so only once everyone has voted can the rematch begin. If at least half the votes are for a /random_rematch, the teams can get shuffled also.

Perhaps a /swap_rematch would be useful to swap the teams around, in the case the map is not mirrored?

What do yo guys think?

If this was done it would be used quite often. It may not be the best way but if its a easy solution for now o queues are reworked and balanced in the future, I still think the rematch feature would be used all the time.

With the rematch addition, I really wanna see it be on the user interface as a click able button since so much confusion about pvp already. If its implemented as a command for now thats fine but eventually having a button on user interface would be optimal and eliminate ignorance about its existence.

I really think Sarn Arena needs to be moved to a different location. I think a lot of people walk by it without knowing it's there or taking time to walk to the top of all the stairs. If Sarn Arena door was placed near where the shops are somewhere I think more people would visit and go there. It could even work with the current environment with little change, because many arena/colleseums have a lower entrance. A entrance near the bottom of the stairs where the weapon shop is would be a great location I believe. They could even leave the other entrance the same and just have two ways to get to the arena, a quick way and a long way.

Also I really like the idea some people had about King of the hill, whoever held the hill the longest. They could do this using my idea of two entrances too. One entrance for normal free for all Sarn Arena, and one entrance for King of the hill. Maybe it's not a good idea though, just a thought.

I think it would also be cool for your kills and deaths in Sarn Arena and also separately for matchmaking are recorded somewhere on your profile on the forums. It would be cool to know how many other characters you killed and times died just to keep track. They could also keep track for each character, so you killed x toons in Sarn Arena and died x times with one character, and killed y and died y with another character.