I think most skills need reducing their damage for more in PVP

wtf is this really coming from someone who abused RF?

"

MrEnzyme wrote:

"

berkshireee wrote:

"

behakungfu wrote:

May be u should just farm a lot before you enter pvp, or dont even think about pvp without gg gear :D

So basically someone should play this game pve for 2 months, maybe 4 if they have a life, to get 500 exalts worth of gear in order to enter pvp? Nice way to make this game pure pve.

EDIT: actually, farming 4 months moderately will not get you 500 exalts worth of gear. Combine farming with extreme daytrading or you will not stand a chance. Which defeats the purpose of playing moderately.

That's how high level pvp works; whoever farmed better gear wins, up until each player has near-perfect gear worth hundreds of exalts. If you want pvp that isnt a joke (i.e. not requiring hundreds of hours to grind) then do level 28 pvp. It still requires you to get some currency, but its incomparably less than merciless pvp and you can actually make a character and get gear very quickly.

That doesn't mean GGG should try to balance pvp in terms of these super legacy items that few players will ever get.

"

berkshireee wrote:

That doesn't mean GGG should try to balance pvp in terms of these super legacy items that few players will ever get.

They don't try to balance PvP. The righteous fire scaling is like the only thing they've ever done in over a year of pvp existing that was specifically for pvp (except for maybe bear trap nerfs, correct me if I'm wrong here). Based on what they release and talk about, pvp is barely a priority, so balancing for it is definitely not a thing they care much about except when something is so clearly broken (like RF).

Obviously legacy items are a bad thing for pvp though, that should go without saying, because they make acquiring gear a bigger obstacle. It's already an obstacle that a new person wanting to pvp has to get over before they can even play, and if we want new people coming to PvP then getting gear can't be this insurmountable challenge (as with high level pvp) or they'll never bother with it and pvp will rot from inactivity. Not to mention that any sort of item rebalance is impossible/pointless if the old versions still exist, lol.

We have 3 issues here

#1: There is no PvP damage divider.
What I mean is, like in Diablo II, players only dealt roughly 1/6 of their damage to other players. Where in PoE, they deal 100%. When duels end up being who can 1-2 shot first or who has the fatter regen-tank build, it's boring and uninteresting.

The solution
You already mimed Diablo II's gameplay mechanics 80%, might as well use their damage dividing pvp mechanic too.

#2: Regen-Tanks
Correct me if I've heard wrong: but I've heard tell of many characters simply just stacking life regen, HP, life-leech, life on hit, etc in such a way that they become invulnerable to the bulk of other player builds.

This problem would get worse if the above solution were implemented.

The Solution
Again, Blizzard North was on top of this problem with D2, as they already had Life-Leech disabled in PvP from the beginning.
-Disable Life-leech and Life on Hit in PvP areas
-Nerf Life Regen to almost nothing in PvP areas

Mirrored and Legacy Items
Deal with it. Like other people have stated, no matter how much time you spend playing, no matter how knowledgeable you are at the game, and no matter how much currency you pour into your items... there will always be people with better gear than you... and as long as there are always people with better gear, there will always be gear for you to cry OP over.

I never liked the fact that I would never own a 08 Valkyies in Diablo II, but I didn't ever let it get to me. I just sharpened my skills and learned to beat them despite their advantage the old fashioned way.

Besides; a win is much more satisfying when your opponent had a steep advantage against you. It's why I challenge level 90+ modders with my level 30 LLD hammerdin on D2 all the time. They're usually terrible duelers and go emo or ragedquit when they get beat by a legit LLD. It's totally worth it.

"

Blockinlick wrote:

We have 3 issues here

#1: There is no PvP damage divider.
What I mean is, like in Diablo II, players only dealt roughly 1/6 of their damage to other players. Where in PoE, they deal 100%. When duels end up being who can 1-2 shot first or who has the fatter regen-tank build, it's boring and uninteresting.

The solution
You already mimed Diablo II's gameplay mechanics 80%, might as well use their damage dividing pvp mechanic too.

#2: Regen-Tanks
Correct me if I've heard wrong: but I've heard tell of many characters simply just stacking life regen, HP, life-leech, life on hit, etc in such a way that they become invulnerable to the bulk of other player builds.

This problem would get worse if the above solution were implemented.

The Solution
Again, Blizzard North was on top of this problem with D2, as they already had Life-Leech disabled in PvP from the beginning.
-Disable Life-leech and Life on Hit in PvP areas
-Nerf Life Regen to almost nothing in PvP areas

Mirrored and Legacy Items
Deal with it. Like other people have stated, no matter how much time you spend playing, no matter how knowledgeable you are at the game, and no matter how much currency you pour into your items... there will always be people with better gear than you... and as long as there are always people with better gear, there will always be gear for you to cry OP over.

I never liked the fact that I would never own a 08 Valkyies in Diablo II, but I didn't ever let it get to me. I just sharpened my skills and learned to beat them despite their advantage the old fashioned way.

Besides; a win is much more satisfying when your opponent had a steep advantage against you. It's why I challenge level 90+ modders with my level 30 LLD hammerdin on D2 all the time. They're usually terrible duelers and go emo or ragedquit when they get beat by a legit LLD. It's totally worth it.

#1 - there are pvp damage modifiers for each individual skill.
#2 - disable life leech and life on hit and nerf life regen? lol. no.

"

Gjohny wrote:

#1 - there are pvp damage modifiers for each individual skill.
#2 - disable life leech and life on hit and nerf life regen? lol. no.

#1. They are so weak, they're almost non-existent then. They need nerfed harder... all of them.

#2... and why not?

Please, give me a good argument for why life leech, on hit, and regen are better for PvP than worse. I'd LOVE to hear that.

And don't throw the build variety argument out there either. The general concept of building a life replenishing character in of itself cripples the viability of so many other builds. The number of viable builds it does open up are greatly outnumbered by the ones it trumps.

PLEASE, I beg of you, try to argue this with me.

"

Blockinlick wrote:

We have 3 issues here

#1: There is no PvP damage divider.
What I mean is, like in Diablo II, players only dealt roughly 1/6 of their damage to other players. Where in PoE, they deal 100%. When duels end up being who can 1-2 shot first or who has the fatter regen-tank build, it's boring and uninteresting.

The solution
You already mimed Diablo II's gameplay mechanics 80%, might as well use their damage dividing pvp mechanic too.

#2: Regen-Tanks
Correct me if I've heard wrong: but I've heard tell of many characters simply just stacking life regen, HP, life-leech, life on hit, etc in such a way that they become invulnerable to the bulk of other player builds.

This problem would get worse if the above solution were implemented.

The Solution
Again, Blizzard North was on top of this problem with D2, as they already had Life-Leech disabled in PvP from the beginning.
-Disable Life-leech and Life on Hit in PvP areas
-Nerf Life Regen to almost nothing in PvP areas

Mirrored and Legacy Items
Deal with it. Like other people have stated, no matter how much time you spend playing, no matter how knowledgeable you are at the game, and no matter how much currency you pour into your items... there will always be people with better gear than you... and as long as there are always people with better gear, there will always be gear for you to cry OP over.

I never liked the fact that I would never own a 08 Valkyies in Diablo II, but I didn't ever let it get to me. I just sharpened my skills and learned to beat them despite their advantage the old fashioned way.

Besides; a win is much more satisfying when your opponent had a steep advantage against you. It's why I challenge level 90+ modders with my level 30 LLD hammerdin on D2 all the time. They're usually terrible duelers and go emo or ragedquit when they get beat by a legit LLD. It's totally worth it.

They didn't have LL disabled from the beginning. It took them til around 1.08 to remove it, Its been a long time but it was certainly a thing til right around LOD expansion release. I watched that game progress from day 1 til it turned to shit in 1.11.

Nerfing life regen would just make DOT damage even better then it is. Push ES based builds again way above HP based ones. Also, regen isn't really a problem nor is leech. You wrote you "heard", thats your first mistake..hearing from someone who probably blows. Ya scrubby players like to get hit then start running marathons til they regen to full hp again. You have ways to deal with that, its really not a big deal. Regen is also a large factor for blood magic users to sustain an hp pool while using taxing skills.

Bloodless passive and Sin treks exist for a reason and if you're losing to life gain on hit all by itself....well you're weak.

ot:
they removed LL in 1.10 or half 1.09. we all can remember ama's that leeched shittons of life lol. was too op.

I agree with Blockinlick about the damage divider. There should be a big nerf for all skills in PVP instead of only an over-nerf for Righteous Fire. I agree that Righteous Fire used to kill people very fast, but other skills with godly gears kill people insanely fast too. Why did not they get nerfed. It is so unfair! Thinking about that make me feel so disappointed... RF should only be nerfed to the point that builders need to use a combining spell skill such as EK, FP, Spark,...to kill people fast, not to the point of dealing joking damage like now. Burning too much on users but dealing almost no damage in PVP, only giving some bonus spell damage is what RF now is. It is just like nerfing kaoms heart from 1000 life to only 50 life, not 500 life! So sad...

I agree with MullaXul that regen should not be nerfed in PVP. It is very important for Blood Magic builders.

If a guy focus too much on tanking, he wont have much damage to kill people. He can be killed fast by 2 players combo though. By the way, banning legacy items and mirrored items will make all people less tanky. I saw a tanky guy with legacy kaoms and mirror rings, boots, gloves, helm with max life + tri res + armor rolls.(However, he still can be killed fast because of over-damage in PVP now.) Thus, if legacy items and mirrored items are banned in PVP, his stack of like will be significantly reduced and people can kill him fast. I have legacy kaoms too, but i dont like to be called "you win because you have legacy kaoms heart!" by new players. Legacy items and mirrored items are so OP, so they must pay for that OP. Their limitation should be set to only used for PVE. Their existence is obviously one of most important things to be considered in PVP. They should be de-activated in PVP so that the playground would be fair and more fun.

"

MullaXul wrote:

You wrote you "heard", thats your first mistake..hearing from someone who probably blows. Ya scrubby players like to get hit then start running marathons til they regen to full hp again. You have ways to deal with that, its really not a big deal.

I'm not talking about those noobs. I'm talking about people who can stand there and tank you in such a way that they don't even need to run because their life replenishing, armor, and evasion are all at extreme levels. I see the complaints about it everywhere. One guy, in a discussion about why PoE PvP sucks, even said "No one really knows how to deal with these builds, they're indestructible, so no one really PvP's because of them"

So you're calling these people liars? And if they're not borderline indestructible... just what measures do you have to take to beat them? Is it like facing a Farcast Zon on D2 where you pretty much have to have your character specc'ed specifically in such a way to defeat them?

In any case; obviously these characters are OP enough to cause a stir, because like I said, I constantly see hype about them. Why is there so much hype about it while you claim it's not a problem?

I'm not speaking from a hardcore spending perspective either. I'm not interested in PvP where I have to spend the equivalent of $300 or more just to viably compete. If you spend that much currency on your character, then you honestly have no idea what it's like to lose to these kinds of people in the first place, so of course you don't think it's a problem.

"

Regen is also a large factor for blood magic users to sustain an hp pool while using taxing skills.

Good point. Maybe it shouldn't be nerfed too hard, but it still needs nerfed a bit. And life on Hit is actually not so bad because of 1v1... however, Lifeleech should be disabled without a doubt.

"

You have ways to deal with that

Now, instead of just stating it, why not give some examples of some ways to deal with it? I'm all ears [Eyes w/e].