Incoming Changes To Season 5

Relevant bits reposted from the 1.0.1 patch notes:

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Chris wrote:

Race Balance:

• Various balance adjustments have been made to the Endless Ledge.
• Class chests for Descent: Classic have been updated.
• Characters now have a standing start in all race events.
• When race prizes are awarded in Race Season Five onwards, the remove-only stash tab they go to can be accessed from any non-event league. You cannot access it in the first two weeks of a ladder. This means that your race prizes can be removed from the tab in Domination or Nemesis (but can't be put back in). When the next four month leagues start, the prizes will not be available in the first two weeks (to keep the early race fair).

Endless ledge and descent classic: Itd be nice to have a short list of the actual changes before the season goes live. Discovering these sorts of changes as we go is fun in the main leagues; in competitive events, not so much.

Standing start: Better late than never!

Race rewards: Excellent. What based genius do we have to thank for this splendid solution?!

A major issue i see here is the lack of mention of any changes to the insecure map seed code. Is this on the menu for a patch in the close future, or will races be infested with map/zoom hack users for yet another season?

I posted this in the patch notes thread which will never be read, so I'll just post it here in hopes of someone seeing it.

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Chris wrote:

When race prizes are awarded in Race Season Five onwards, the remove-only stash tab they go to can be accessed from any non-event league. You cannot access it in the first two weeks of a ladder. This means that your race prizes can be removed from the tab in Domination or Nemesis (but can't be put back in). When the next four month leagues start, the prizes will not be available in the first two weeks (to keep the early race fair)

So if I'm reading this right, if we leave the race rewards from this season in their remove only tabs, we would theoretically be able to pull them out in some random 4 month league 5 years from now?

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that we have a choice of which current league the rewards will go to, but this seems like it will encourage hoarding of race rewards and clutter the hell out of the stash tabs (assuming the system continues to be where a new tab is opened for every new race reward you get).

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Various balance adjustments have been made to the Endless Ledge.

So vague.
Whatever it means either it means no more level penalty, longer ledges at lvl 26+ or it means something like, we think the level 36 boss with level 68 damage was funny, so all bosses lvl 24 onward are that funny now.
I would rather read something like "Fixed the the Damage of the level 36 map boss"

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Class chests for Descent: Classic have been updated.

This sounds more like:"Added Scion support for Descent"
Sure if the Scion gets the correct gems it might be awesome but if the gems are bad as in regular gem rewards, it's just bah.
This is similar the Witch chest with Zombie.


The devs should stop the "The community should figure it out policy and finally reveal the contents" policy. I don't want to waste 2 races to see content of Descent chests.
I won't mind if you can see the contents and once you remove an item this chest has been chosen.

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Characters now have a standing start in all race events.

No more relogging :)

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When race prizes are awarded in Race Season Five onwards, the remove-only stash tab they go to can be accessed from any non-event league. You cannot access it in the first two weeks of a ladder. This means that your race prizes can be removed from the tab in Domination or Nemesis (but can't be put back in). When the next four month leagues start, the prizes will not be available in the first two weeks (to keep the early race fair).

This is heavily exploitable.....
I still think they should be moved to HC after the 4month leagues ended.

Following situation:
You receive an alt art unique and let it rot in your RO Tab. The item gets nerfed and you have got Legacy items 2 weeks after a new league starts.

This will have negative side effects on both sides. Strong uniques will never be high tier rewards again because the chance of them getting nerfed is really high.

Less players will do racing because the rewards are bad.

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A major issue i see here is the lack of mention of any changes to the insecure map seed code. Is this on the menu for a patch in the close future, or will races be infested with map/zoom hack users for yet another season?

I am certain the race shedule will be disappointing as in S1. S3 and S4.
Enjoy the 8h race on Monday again. Copy + Paste from S4.

There are still big issues:
There is no change C/F/S in policy!
I don't want to see something like 90min Turbo (C) and 90min Turbo (F) in different time Zones.

Especially if certain really interesting settings will labelled fun if they are in reality really competive but good no mod races die in those and cry because they didn't win a demigod.
I remember the 2h (Turbo?) Immolation Party race, where 3 of the 5 top groups had a nasty surprise(believing Immolation became trivial after level 11 ;D)
There should be a demigod subranking based on Top 10/20 of class rankings so there will less demigods but the demigods will be distribued among more players.

The Signature results are participation and luck based there is no non minimal luck based Signauture races.

As long there is no simple 2 line detection code all races have to be fixed Seed + fixed mob seed with champs always being on the path or no champs at all.

The prices still will be set up in a manner most players stop racing after reaching certain amount of points.

There is still no Solo/Party ranking system. Imo the ranking system even should be set up after mode, because I certainly won't do no mod races anymore because they were far too frequent.

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Hilbert wrote:

I won't mind if you can see the contents and once you remove an item this chest has been chosen.

This.

I think it is a good idea that you can choose yourself to which league your rewards go. But I think it should be limited to the leagues that are active at the time you receive the reward. This would prevent hoarding currency, uniques and whatever found in races and release them in a four month league a year from now (even if it is two weeks in, it is still bad).

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Hilbert wrote:

The Signature results are participation and luck based there is no non minimal luck based Signauture races.

Despite the bad things that one might say about the signature race system being very luck dependent and all, I still think it is better to have it in its current state than to not have it at all.

I think you are making some good and valid points Hilbert, but I don't think the signature races are the most luck based. If anything they are the least luck-based of all races, because you get several tries, which helps minimize RNG.

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SlixSC wrote:

I think you are making some good and valid points Hilbert, but I don't think the signature races are the most luck based. If anything they are the least luck-based of all races, because you get several tries, which helps minimize RNG.

The contra argument is that to beat a record, you do not only have to be good, you also have to play a lot. If you do not, you will be beaten by players of similar skill that play more and thus have much higher chance of, eventually, having a run with ridiculously good RNG.

In order to beat the signature record, you have to have lucky RNG.

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

I think you are making some good and valid points Hilbert, but I don't think the signature races are the most luck based. If anything they are the least luck-based of all races, because you get several tries, which helps minimize RNG.

The contra argument is that to beat a record, you do not only have to be good, you also have to play a lot. If you do not, you will be beaten by players of similar skill that play more and thus have much higher chance of, eventually, having a run with ridiculously good RNG.

In order to beat the signature record, you have to have lucky RNG.

... Or you could just be Alkaizer :D :D

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

I think you are making some good and valid points Hilbert, but I don't think the signature races are the most luck based. If anything they are the least luck-based of all races, because you get several tries, which helps minimize RNG.

The contra argument is that to beat a record, you do not only have to be good, you also have to play a lot. If you do not, you will be beaten by players of similar skill that play more and thus have much higher chance of, eventually, having a run with ridiculously good RNG.

In order to beat the signature record, you have to have lucky RNG.

That's just not true at all. The chances of having a run with good RNG are higher, yes... but that doesn't mean that someone playing alot has an inherent advantage over someone who doesn't because you cannot predict, no matter how many tries, the RNG of any given player.

It is quite possible for someone to do 10 races and have bad RNG in every single one of them, while someone only doing 1-2 races could have absolutely insane RNG and still come out ahead.

So yes, your chances of having good RNG are higher the more you race, however that in and of itself isn't an inherent advantage for people who race alot, unless they get good RNG.

The, almost, paradoxical thing about probability is that you cannot (in a case like this) predict how probable it is for any given player to have good or bad RNG in their runs, because RNG doesn't follow a set rule, it is random in it's very nature.

Doing more races obviously increases your chances of having a good run with good rng, but that doesn't mean that if there are two players of equal skill the one doing more races necessarily wins. That's simply not true.

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MyH4o wrote:

Spoiler

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

I think you are making some good and valid points Hilbert, but I don't think the signature races are the most luck based. If anything they are the least luck-based of all races, because you get several tries, which helps minimize RNG.

The contra argument is that to beat a record, you do not only have to be good, you also have to play a lot. If you do not, you will be beaten by players of similar skill that play more and thus have much higher chance of, eventually, having a run with ridiculously good RNG.

In order to beat the signature record, you have to have lucky RNG.

... Or you could just be Alkaizer :D :D

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Hassefar60 wrote:

...of similar skill...

:D

@SlixSC:
I never said it was an inherent advantage to play more races. I said it was an inherent disadvantage not to. No, you are not guaranteed to have better RNG just because you play more. But assuming that there are 5-10-20 players of equal skill or better, one or more of them will almost surely have a run with very good RNG at some point during the season.

But, it is not black and white, I agree. I just wanted to post the contra argument, as we know, by experience from previous seasons, perhaps with the exception of Alkaizer, that most records were set with very good RNG.

Right, but most races are won with good RNG, this isn't just true for signature races. In any race, if you want to win you kind of need at least somewhat good RNG, unless, like last season, nobody else is racing.

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I never said it was an inherent advantage to play more races. I said it was an inherent disadvantage not to.

You can still have better RNG than everyone else even if you don't play many races at all, so it's not an inherent disadvantage necessarily.

*cough* Alkaizer *cough*