ELE LIGHTNING STRIKE - ALL T16s, Shaper, Uber Atziri, HOGM, Chayula, Elder

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Junkx wrote:

with blind AND enfeeble, no i didn't notice a difference. the only thing i did notice was i had to start actually using enfeeble. most of the time i just had it available and NEVER used it...more of a uh oh moment type of thing.
but without block you'll want to cast it much more often. still not vs trash mobs, they are never a problem but especially if LS is having trouble blinding then you'll cast on probably all elites/rares/bosses.

Ok thanks, this is good to know!

"

Junkx wrote:

the thing that sucks most about having lower than 45% evasion is ondar's guile. without block and without 95% chance to evade projectiles, they will start hitting you ESPECIALLY when you get cursed with projectile weakness. you'll still have very high avoidance but ya, if you can keep jade flask going that'd actually be better than rolling grace, in fact.

I don't think it would be that bad, the LS build has ~30% evasion base evasion and ~50% I think with Jade flask. But I played as ranged mostly, so it would be a bit different if I play melee. I will have to see how it feels.

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Junkx wrote:

so what are you trying to do? i just ran through your current LS builds tree and altered it to take out some block nodes and try to get the flask effect nodes and more HP and its looking like this

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIBAF4FfQW1DkgRlha_G60kPCT9JpUnqTBxMgE6QkjuSVFKfUt4VUtW6lb1VvpabWHiZ6Bte3BScFZ0QXfXeK59438rf8aHdofbiEKMNpAbl9CaE5smnaOmf6c0p1yxs7IZtMW1SLk-wFHBxcaizerPetN-1CPVANaK227b1N2o3vbjhOdU53To1u1B7g7z6vyr_MUj9u_wWkiVZgSxTGDvehrb6f65fKOKBfkV8DpYBH6HGYIewfNtGUV-DlwQdHNTB2NXK8BUGY7tgwgum42dqmKs1p0I9HkD

with BoR and saffell's (115% and up) you're looking at 45% base block, which would obviously not be used, but that would translate to 74% spell block with shield/lazhwar. rolling an extra curse on lazhwar would probably be the best idea, instead of more block/spell block.
this also gives you a pretty high 242% hp.

Nice, we have almost the same trees. This is what I was thinking. This is the defensive version with a lot of life and almost ten nodes that go into the evasion nodes by the 2 Nullification nodes. I am getting 246%+ life

I was trying to make up for the missing block by getting more evasion, but it probably will not add up to much more evasion. I may take out those ten nodes from Nullifications and put into life and damage like yours. I might also get the extra power charge by the witch for higher crit chance.

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Junkx wrote:

im not as knowledgeable on the attack you'd need to utilize, especially since im not sure what your dps is like without shock stacks and whatnot. i know you have that mirrored dagger so that could pick up some slack in either dps passives or alternating attack gems i dunno.

as for links...ya it'll be tight. what are you planning right now? obviously you got your atk on your BoR, umm auras on either gloves or boots. but if you're only able to run two auras, 60% and 40% then you could run that with reduced mana on either shield or weap so that would help.

as for automatically generating EC i don't see it happening with what you have planned. it would take a lot more micro-managing but you could just link in the saffell's EC IC and increased duration for all manual casting, especially since you wouldn't need to do it often, and just not run a CWDT.
so then in your gloves you could run two curses, enfeeble and w/e with increased AoE and increased duration or something. then on your boots you can run whatever you want, alternative attack (double strike faster attacks multi and LGoH) or w/e.

interesting. will be fun to see what you come up with

I would like to keep LS as skill because it is so flexible but the issues with applying Blind when you are in tight spots as well as recharging flasks -> I think Double Strike will be best here because my flasks will recharge much faster with crits from Double Strike than Lightning Strike, and with melee splash I will not have to worry about not blinding. Heck I may even check out Blast Radius node by Witch for increased AOE. Links will probably be:
DS -> LGOH or Life Leech (I find Life Leech to help better against degen) -> Multistrike -> Melee Splash. And then swap Melee Splash for Added Fire Damage for bosses

The main downside with Double Strike is: fighting in melee range, and REFLECT so I'll have to test this. Reflect with LS is not an issue as we can use Ondar's Guile vs. our own projectiles.

Anyway, this is what I was thinking:
BofR: DS->LGOH/LL->Multi->MS
Saffell: RRB: CWDT + EC + Enfeeble (level 20)
Boots: GRGR: Hatred + Reduced Mana + Purity of Lightning + Purity of Fire (will switch between running Lightning or Fire depending on situation)
Gloves: RRGB: Immortal Call + Inc. Duration + Enhance + Faster Casting
Dagger: GRB: Vaal Grace + Increased Duration + Crit Weakness

I think that would give me everything I need. If I don't like the aura set up I will move it to the shield with just 3Ls like you mention and put the CWDT set up and Enfeeble in a 4L in the boots maybe adding in something like Faster Casting for Enfeeble or Enhance.

Really excited to try this out, now I have to make a big respec for this.

Quick update on this: really loving this new build so far. I'm hitting 100% max res when I drink Distillate, but usually I am at 93% max res. Flasks are recharging very well. Surprisingly I am at ~30% evasion at base, but when I drink Jade I go up to 64% so I am happy about that.

Not having any trouble with regular mobs, although this is probably because they are getting frozen and cleared very fast. I need to test against a physical boss, although 1v1 is where evasion shines =) so I do not expect there to be any problems.

I tested double Mageara with DS standing in same spot with melee attack and felt very safe. Need to do some more tests though for Palace, Courtyard, Atziri, and new 75 unique map

I can use Vaal Grace more frequently than I expected because the soul requirement is relatively low. I am getting 7s Vaal Grace duration.

Plan to work on these things:

- I have Enduring Cry set up, but need to incorporate Immortal Call (would need RRBB links on evasion gloves so I am trying to get this)
- I forgot about movement skill so I added in 3L with Whirling Blades and PCOC which is giving me easy power charges. So I have to put EC + IC + ID + Faster Casting in its own 4L which takes RRBB coloring
- I plan to test out Reave instead of Double Strike - that way I can eliminate Melee Splash which costs a lot of mana at 160% multiplier and then put in another DPS gem at lower mana cost. Although I think the flask recharge on crit may be slower
- I took out LGOH and put in Life Leech because of the lower mana multiplier, and LGOH is not as good as LL in degen and also in 1v1 against a boss
- Would really like more accuracy since I am currently at 81% but I'm struggling how to do this unless I go Reave -> LL -> Multistrike -> Additional Accuracy

So far I'm really loving the synergies here and not having to get many block nodes on the tree, and spell defense is superb.

This is tree I am testing:

Eldritch Battery is not an option anymore because I only have like 50 ES after Dodge. Life is still around 4K as before.

ya know i was thinking about it a bit, and i don't think you need a WHOLE lot of hp with that type of defensive capabilities. sitting around 3500-4000 hp should be plenty.
the biggest threat of one shot is spell dmg, or a mixture. i don't even think there is enough physical damage on any boss that will be able to one shot you if you have 3,500 hp.

my previous build i played around for probably 3 whole months at 3,150 hp and still never got one shot. so if you prime your build around 200% hp i think that'll end up with plenty of health to keep yourself from being one shot by any type of physical dmg. i mean atziri or uber atziri will do more than 5k if she does end up hitting you, so pumping so many more passives into a bonus that won't matter isn't worth it. just a way to save a few passives.

also post the gear you're using. im not sure what your resistances strain is but the way to battle accuracy as you know is to get as much flat accuracy bonus on your gear as possible. gloves, and both rings if you're not using a unique is basically a must. you can get some pretty cheap rings around too especially custom with accuracy/life/whatever resistances you need.
its what i did and i even crafted some with bonus stats too, but sadly i can't reinstall the game and hand em over to ya. got rid of my gaming machine for just a base line laptop for basic browsing, so i can't sry mate.

also how important are the aura nodes in the shadow that you've picked up? its mostly for the effect which would mostly be useful with the purity auras...do you still cap at 100% when you don't have those allocated? it would be great to get rid of them if you can for more accuracy.

i also think the bonus evasion isn't worth it either, and heck if you're hitting 64% with jade flask that is absolutely more than enough and i bet if you take out the 36% evasion bonus from shadow you probably won't even go down a %. maybe a couple at most, but its clear that jade flask is available to save you a hunk of passives.

if you can go with 108 points, this is what i suggest. the added accuracy (56% from tree total) will heavily scale with any flat accuracy you can muster. i think i had 200ish from my gloves, and like 300 from a ring and with 56% i was sitting at 89%. i could get to 91% accuracy with another ring pretty easily but wasn't able to craft it.


as you can see i took out primal spirit. i found that to be useless because its only 20% mana regen rate, which is very low. the mana flask recovery was also not useful for me because my mana pool wasn't hit enough to merit a good mana flasks full recovery anyway, so more of it was wasted. so unless you need the stats i'd skip it and funnel it into the witch recovery, which gives you 60% (as well as a very close and easy 12% hp/mana passive).

the added accuracy and small changes also add a base 13% movement speed to your build, not too shabby. but ya obviously its your build its your character. you know how it feels and you know your gear limitations etc, so im kinda just throwing darts in the dark but hopefully something i say helps, lol

good luck bro

Thanks bro, your comments were very helpful. Sadly, the build turned out to not be suited for all-round play:

- I had to switch back to Lightning Strike because I was easily one shotting myself with Reave or Doublestrike on reflect
- At least with Lightning Strike I could do reflect packs easily and could do reflect maps
- I really started noticing the missing block on maps with mobs that have a lot of life and take longer to kill - especially Atziri map, or vs. bosses where I can't always keep my Jade flask up. It was also annoying in some boss rooms to have lots of mobs attacking so I got hit a lot more because entropy.
- My DPS is pretty high and I could easily freeze and shock regular trash mobs but I could tell that someone with a lower DPS dagger will have a lot more problems if they cannot freeze and LS will not be able to apply blind effectively in AOE
- The build is superb vs. pure spell bosses like Crematorium, but I felt that creating the build sacrificed too much of my regular defense just to get higher spell defenses
- I really liked the Enduring Cry + Immortal Call setup and was getting a max of 7s of Immortal Call from 3 Endurance Charges - but this was tedious to spam in fights and casting EC then casting IC takes up like 2s maybe which is time when you are not leeching or when you could get stunned and interrupted - this was even more dangerous for me since I had no block

- EC + IC is also a bit of a Catch-22 for me in my damage avoidance build: my damage avoidance pretty high, but it is mostly random so I have no idea when my evade/dodge/block will fail resulting in damage, so the best case is to keep spamming EC and keep IC up - which is easy to do if it lasts 5s+. But if you have permanent IC - then there really is no point in getting evasion/regular dodge/regular block since you become immune to attacks' physical damage. You could argue that evasion/dodge/block help against attacks with elemental damage - which is true, but you have high resistances that help mitigate a lot of elemental damage
- So the alternative case for EC + IC in this build seems to be with a low-level CWDT - however you will only get a very small duration on IC from this <1s, so it really is pointless
- I think optimum way to go is to just use a high level Enduring Cry only for endurance charges, and drop Immortal Call. I don't even use IC for the Atziri trio-bosses because I can play at range then switch to melee with LS

- Still, this was a fun little project. I love Vaal Grace and could use it 3-4 times per map. It was hilarious to check my stats with 75% dodge, 75% spell dodge, and 93%-100% resistances for brief seconds of time

- Anyway, now I am trying to make a Ranger life based wander, it would be crit based with the same flask nodes and Herbalism as well. I want to make it life-based so it is cheaper for people to try, but no doubt it will get much higher damage as a low-life Ranger wander.

If anyone was interested, this was my gear, links, and tree for the spell-Saffell build:


Tree:

alright, try this on for size. drop BoR, pick up a couple block nodes, and wear lightning coil for the physical mitigation which would also assist vs reflect. if you ran with purity of lightning does that mean you'd reach 100% resist with flask up? and what would be your normal resist value, like 90-92%?

this would also allow you to use obviously a 5-6L and a good helmet for higher evasion, maybe even alphas howl to avoid frozen and have less mana restraints. or you could use it to ease the burden of other resistances and grab up more flat accuracy on rings.

afterall, if LS doesn't apply blind very well then you're really not losing out on a whole lot by swapping out BoR. you'd have lower hp depending on the helm you chose to use and you would have to pick up the slack in block but otherwise you can make up for the dps factor in your 5 or 6L chest pretty easily considering now you can add quality and any support you want.

alternatively you could use a daresso's defiance chest which will constantly give you endurance charges upon kills in order to manually cast a high level and highly supported IC, but without block you'd be losing them more often also. that also doesn't work vs solo bosses. but nothing in PoE is without disadvantage!

so lets see, with lightning coil and alphas, you may be able to run 2x purity and hatred too tho i have no idea what your remaining pool would look like. but in any case, here is a proposed tree for it.


thats just what really sucks with the evasion/block entropy mechanism. when you evade, the entropy kicks in and you could check for a hit, but that checked hit could be blocked (and most likely is) which resets the entropy on evasion, so the next hit is an evade again.
this synergizes so well with each other to skip out on it is a huge disadvantage.

i guess maybe we can't have our cake and eat it too. well, more than we already do! lol

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Junkx wrote:

alright, try this on for size. drop BoR, pick up a couple block nodes, and wear lightning coil for the physical mitigation which would also assist vs reflect. if you ran with purity of lightning does that mean you'd reach 100% resist with flask up? and what would be your normal resist value, like 90-92%?

this would also allow you to use obviously a 5-6L and a good helmet for higher evasion, maybe even alphas howl to avoid frozen and have less mana restraints. or you could use it to ease the burden of other resistances and grab up more flat accuracy on rings.

afterall, if LS doesn't apply blind very well then you're really not losing out on a whole lot by swapping out BoR. you'd have lower hp depending on the helm you chose to use and you would have to pick up the slack in block but otherwise you can make up for the dps factor in your 5 or 6L chest pretty easily considering now you can add quality and any support you want.

alternatively you could use a daresso's defiance chest which will constantly give you endurance charges upon kills in order to manually cast a high level and highly supported IC, but without block you'd be losing them more often also. that also doesn't work vs solo bosses. but nothing in PoE is without disadvantage!

so lets see, with lightning coil and alphas, you may be able to run 2x purity and hatred too tho i have no idea what your remaining pool would look like. but in any case, here is a proposed tree for it.

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIBAF4EfgV9BbUF-QguDkgOXBB0EZYV8Ba_GY4a2xutI_YkPCT9JpUnqTBxMgE6QjpYRX5I7klRSn1LeExgVUtW6lb1VvpaSFptYeJnoG0ZbXtwUnBWdEF313iufXV9438rf8aHGYd2h9uIQow2kBuX0JoTmyabjZ2joqOjiqZ_pzSnXLGzshm0xbVIuT65fMBRwcXB88aizerPetN-1CPVANaK227b1N2o3vbjhOdU53To1un-7UHtg-4O73rv8PPq_Kv8xf66c1MHY1crwFQ94rfTwuwegUuN_xw=

thats just what really sucks with the evasion/block entropy mechanism. when you evade, the entropy kicks in and you could check for a hit, but that checked hit could be blocked (and most likely is) which resets the entropy on evasion, so the next hit is an evade again.
this synergizes so well with each other to skip out on it is a huge disadvantage.

i guess maybe we can't have our cake and eat it too. well, more than we already do! lol

Haha! That's true! Ok, I will try one of those out and see how it works, thanks for the suggestions! I've been trying some other character builds, but without the blind + evade + dodge + block combo I feel sooo weak with those characters and I easily take damage. I think I'm spoiled now from this build xD, not sure if I am doing something wrong or if that just how it feels to play normal. Anyway, I might try a MoM build as well.

i know what you mean man. every single build i've ever considered since like september has always needed to be an evasion build because of its INSANE defensive capabilities.

it just sucks i was never able to finish my crit puncture evasion ranger, but ah well. my mjolner discharger build tho is definitely my favourite build in the game by and large.
when i first saw that build i fell in love but EVERYBODY was either marauder or templar to get the stats (thus, they were armour only). transitioning that build to an evasive one and making it work, best accomplishment i consider myself doing in this game. just being able to get the stats required and whatnot for that build to work, its so tight and optimized its fantastic and hilarious fun.

i've always wanted to try low life builds, but that rules out acrobatics and basically requires a shavs which i never got.
however i did also almost test a CI+acrobatics trapper or totem build. i think you could still pull off CI+acrobatics, even tho it isn't ideal im sure you could still make it work. by having so much defense (would need max block/spell block active) you could sacrifice even up to half of your ES i think without a problem. why? because it isn't about how much ES/health you have, its about your EFFECTIVE health. so naturally somebody with much more damage avoidance can get away with having lower hp/ES

the funny thing about blind/evade/block/dodge is it is overkill, so i'd say you're able to take out at least one in that formation. with saffell's you're taking out block, but that is the worst one to take out because of how it acts with evasion's entropy.
you basically can't take out dodge cause you need to grab up phase acro, which forces you take dodge. you can however drop BoR and take out blind without a problem, you will not notice a difference by just taking out blind. you can also take out evasion to an extent, like we've already done by dropping grace is most cases.

so ya, i type too much but hey there ya go

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Junkx wrote:

i know what you mean man. every single build i've ever considered since like september has always needed to be an evasion build because of its INSANE defensive capabilities.

it just sucks i was never able to finish my crit puncture evasion ranger, but ah well. my mjolner discharger build tho is definitely my favourite build in the game by and large.
when i first saw that build i fell in love but EVERYBODY was either marauder or templar to get the stats (thus, they were armour only). transitioning that build to an evasive one and making it work, best accomplishment i consider myself doing in this game. just being able to get the stats required and whatnot for that build to work, its so tight and optimized its fantastic and hilarious fun.

i've always wanted to try low life builds, but that rules out acrobatics and basically requires a shavs which i never got.
however i did also almost test a CI+acrobatics trapper or totem build. i think you could still pull off CI+acrobatics, even tho it isn't ideal im sure you could still make it work. by having so much defense (would need max block/spell block active) you could sacrifice even up to half of your ES i think without a problem. why? because it isn't about how much ES/health you have, its about your EFFECTIVE health. so naturally somebody with much more damage avoidance can get away with having lower hp/ES

the funny thing about blind/evade/block/dodge is it is overkill, so i'd say you're able to take out at least one in that formation. with saffell's you're taking out block, but that is the worst one to take out because of how it acts with evasion's entropy.
you basically can't take out dodge cause you need to grab up phase acro, which forces you take dodge. you can however drop BoR and take out blind without a problem, you will not notice a difference by just taking out blind. you can also take out evasion to an extent, like we've already done by dropping grace is most cases.

so ya, i type too much but hey there ya go

Hahah, I saw your Mjolner build and it looked awesome. What were your defense stats and was single target an issue?

About low life - my dream would be to make a low-life build with defenses similar to this build, but that incorporates this ring as well for some damage mitigation:



So then you would have: Blind -> Evasion -> Dodge -> Block -> Lori's Lantern (mitigation) defense structure, which is OP. I tried to theorycraft this before but main downside is you need to take out Dodge with ES builds, and it is hard to get max block without Bringer of Rain which gives 15% - even harder to do this if you are going around the Witch area for ES nodes since there are few block nodes there.

As you say, the "trifecta" of evasion->dodge->block is overkill on regular attacks. I actually dropped Dodge in my original axe build and ran only with blind->evasion->block for quite a while and did not notice any difference. I got back into Dodge because Spell Dodge + Atziri's Step is just toooo goooood to pass up.

Block right now is just much better than Dodge because you can get to max 75% and also apply some to spell block.

But dropping Blind? This I think is extremely hard to do. Blind is soo good because it scales - 75% reduction to hit chance (not to accuracy) vs. trash mobs and vs. bosses - they all get he 75% reduction. Which really helps especially vs. packs of high life monsters when your evasion entropy for sure will be used up very quickly.

And sadly the ways to apply Blind outside of an attack are cumbersome (flame totem and smoke mine)

Also if I drop Bringer I lose 15% regular block, which is a lot of Block and Spell Block being lost.

Anyway, I may now try and theorycraft again the low-life-evade-block-Lori Lantern build. I will have to revisit some pages in this thread because we tried this before and had a lot of discussion, but it ultimately became hard to build.

Thanks for your thoughts JunKx, this is great discussion

ya i agree dodge in the equation is the least useful. but phase acro is almost a must - its just sooo good.

thats what i hate about hyrr's whatever that chest is that gives acrobatics - its pointless. acrobatics as a bonus on that chest is still limiting you to an evasion build and it isn't even giving you anything. it could save you one passive from getting acrobatics, but the main point in getting acro is to grab up phase acro, which you'd still have to do!

so IMO that unique should be changed to having PHASE Acrobatics as a bonus instead of acrobatics. this would change so much and would essentially make this low-life build theory craft much easier.
a phase acro unique wouldn't have to be a chest item...and ideally it wouldn't be so you could still use a must needed shavs (unless you HEAVILY stacked chaos resistance)...but ya.


umm about my mjolner build

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Junkx wrote:

ya i agree dodge in the equation is the least useful. but phase acro is almost a must - its just sooo good.

thats what i hate about hyrr's whatever that chest is that gives acrobatics - its pointless. acrobatics as a bonus on that chest is still limiting you to an evasion build and it isn't even giving you anything. it could save you one passive from getting acrobatics, but the main point in getting acro is to grab up phase acro, which you'd still have to do!

so IMO that unique should be changed to having PHASE Acrobatics as a bonus instead of acrobatics. this would change so much and would essentially make this low-life build theory craft much easier.
a phase acro unique wouldn't have to be a chest item...and ideally it wouldn't be so you could still use a must needed shavs (unless you HEAVILY stacked chaos resistance)...but ya.


umm about my mjolner build

Spoiler

i was pretty defensively solid. not as solid as your build, but more-so than my old frenzy crazy atk spd nutso dude. i had an unoptimized 4,100 hp, 32% evade (no grace no flask), 58% block, 46% dodge, 31% spell block and 46% spell dodge with lots of regen ways.
i had LGoH coupled with life leech, lightning leech and my regen was high enough to nearly completely negate blood rage's burn, and if i swapped blood rage off i had pretty good normal regen, 177/sec.
i also had a lvl 2 CWDT with enduring cry and immortal call with increased duration and 4 charges. that coupled with my daresso's defiance meant i always had charges up which was great all around.

i really tested that build around pretty good and the biggest weakness was reflect. if i crit (something like 25% crit chance on discharge with full power charges) in a BIG reflect group, like 10+ i would probably kill myself but otherwise reflect wasn't an issue, including double reflect.
i could control how much damage i did by turning off blood rage, which would eliminate frenzy charges from the equation so that would limit how much dmg i'd reflect on myself. but again the biggest issue was giant groups, i'd just have to take reflect maps a bit slower.

otherwise no bosses were an issue and i did something like 20-25 rare and corrupted ghetto maps in order to test it vs like double trap boss type of thing and i only died if i had reflect. the greatest thing was cyclone would kill the traps before you could trip them, so bear trap was a complete non-issue.

it was definitely fun and strong. single target was not great but it really wasn't too bad. i was in the process of making the single target dps quite a bit better, which i already did with adding in a double-strike setup which was better single target physical dmg as well as let off discharge much more often.
i was going to corrupt my gloves to have elemental weakness on hit so i could eliminate that from my 5L daresso's, then i was going to turn my double strike into my 5L and cyclone just to 4L which would have really bumped up the single target. too bad i didn't get that far before i left but ah well. i was very very happy with that build.

Yeah Hyrri's Ire needs to be redone, not a good design. Thanks for posting about your Mjolner build, I'll check your old thread for the build details because it sounds fun.