trading would be infinitely easier with fractional orbs

How will you brake down orbs to make shards?
Despite reading through the thread several times, missed that was also something that was asked for in the opening post.

Mirror Shards were largelly used in trades indeed, no matter that you don't believe. Now a days it's rarer due to merchant tabs not accepting them as valid currency.

Div shards maybe apears to be too much, but it is a valid point. But before why, let's see how:

Yes, we need a realiable system to break currency into shards, then it would be acceptable; and then, make merchant table to accept those shards as valid currency.

Now lets see why: It is simple, the currency market has been too volatile, currency ratio changes a lot too frequent now. But guess what will always have half mirror value? You are right if you ansewred 10 mirror shards. The same would apply to divs.

So, I don't think it is a terrible idea. The only question if it would be possible to break orbs in shards and if merchant tab would work with them.

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TrunksD2#2172 wrote:

Yes, we need a realiable system to break currency into shards, then it would be acceptable; and then, make merchant table to accept those shards as valid currency.

Now lets see why: It is simple, the currency market has been too volatile, currency ratio changes a lot too frequent now. But guess what will always have half mirror value? You are right if you ansewred 10 mirror shards. The same would apply to divs.

No....this leaves a LOT out. Folks love to argue this, and fail to go beyond the "It's easier math" stage of the assessment.

Yes. It is EASIER to do math with fractional currencies. I am not denying that.

But "is that easier math NECESSARY" is the broader, and far more important question that needs to be answered here.


What you describe in your first paragraph is: break down currency into shards, trade those shards, re-constitute into full orb. Why, why, why, why, WHY? That's three steps to do ONE singular trade for no reason. With faustus doing all the fractional math FOR YOU.....there is zero need to add additional steps simply because "math is easier". This is just stupid. Our current system allows both sides of the trade instant access to usable currency WITHOUT the need to do anything else beyond the single trade.

Second paragraph: volatile currency market would affect all trades regardless of whether shards exist or not. You look at this from ONLY ONE side: breaking a larger currency down into its shards. What about all the OTHER people trading UP to that currency? They still have to deal with all the volatility. Shards don't actually SOLVE any of that issue.



Your assessment, and those of others who think this is a "good idea" are always in the same thinking: completely on ONE SIDE of the equation, without considering anything on the other side.....at all. Even beyond this, it doesn't even account for the ENTIRETY of one side: merely specific instances where it may be applicable.


It isn't good for EITHER SIDE to deal in shards:
the seller ends up unable to use a portion of their trade, or would otherwise have to re-trade it into usable currency. Extra steps, extra tedium, for what? The seller will default to NOT using shards whenever possible because its cumbersome for them to end up with incomplete orbs.

The buyer ends up screwed more. They have to trade up for shards or whole orbs. What happens when the ratio happens to be an odd number? They lose value on every single shard trade or have to do even more complicated math, very much (exactly) the same as what exists now. They are still susceptible to volatility. They have to make multiple smaller trades, losing value every time, just to get to the orb they eventually will need to either use or trade with.


Being able to divide 1 divine into 10ths or 20ths simply isn't worth any of that. It doesn't solve the "easy math" problem, it doesn't solve the "volatility" problem, it adds additional steps to every possible trade, it does NOT open any new doors of trade, and it could potentially even lead to currency bleed thanks to a poor conversion. And then so many people end up with these useless currency fragments that can ONLY be used in the trade system and ONLY on items that are priced in fractional currencies like that.....otherwise shards then need to be converted which......back to square one how it works right now.



"Mirror Shards were largelly used in trades indeed, no matter that you don't believe" - they are NOT. Mirror shards aren't even "largely" available to people. They saw SOME use in trade because of shipments giving out a historically inordinate amount of mirror shards to a tiny subset of PoE players. And, like the other arguments I made, shards are USELESS on their own and so they HAD to be traded. Granted, mirror shards ARE useful.....simply because they are so exceedingly rare......but only to an extremely small minority of players that deal in mirrors. The players that no longer even pick up chaos orbs. Way below 1% of those engaging in trade.

Far more frequently, "mirror" trades (or trades at that level) are done in Divines, and NOT mirror shards.....because people don't HAVE mirror shards. They have mirrors, and they have divines. Folks at that level are hardly EVER breaking apart mirrors into shards to do lesser trades and with Faustus making it incredibly simple and safe to go straight to divs.....that is what people do.

If you are aiming to gather divines and then you precify your itens divine shards, does not matter how much the ratio between other currencies changes. It is simple. And see, We can make a point with fews words.

if u dont want shards, i already mentioned how to do it. make a new paper money that does nothing, and never drops, but lani will exchange it for divine at rate of 10 to 1 divine (both buy and sell).

this way i can easily handle those decimal sellers on trade site without wasting infinite gold on worthless chaos.

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Hustla4Lyfe#7743 wrote:

if u dont want shards, i already mentioned how to do it. make a new paper money that does nothing, and never drops, but lani will exchange it for divine at rate of 10 to 1 divine (both buy and sell).

this way i can easily handle those decimal sellers on trade site without wasting infinite gold on worthless chaos.

Oh, I forgot say something.

I do agree with more shards. Especially by making orbs "breakeable" for reasons already exposed.

But gold still must be necessary to make the trades between orbs and shards. Otherwise RTM would be unstopable.

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TrunksD2#2172 wrote:

If you are aiming to gather divines and then you precify your itens divine shards, does not matter how much the ratio between other currencies changes. It is simple. And see, We can make a point with fews words.

Yes, it is certainly easy to make a false and incorrect point (again) without understanding the concepts in a few words. Thanks for the great example! Your "point" exists only for a small window of players, in a small window of time in their progression. And again, really only in ONE direction. The ratio of currencies will ALWAYS MATTER in the system we have, shards or no, because the other currencies exist. PoE is not like a real currency system, where every denomination is naturally "forced" into the same base 10 system. Currencies AND the shards of those currencies are compared to the other currencies.

1) Players with only a few chaos, or items only worth a chaos would never be "pricing" in divine shards. They are screwed by this system both on the selling AND buying end of things. And they still have to deal with the volatility you are so determined to "solve". For any trade that is below the value of a "shard", which will change with the volatility

2) Players who are consistently trading ABOVE shards would now be saddled with useless shards. They are smart enough to not engage with shards because it STILL requires extra unnecessary steps for them.


Just two examples off the top of my head that take little to no thought which negates your entire point. Also things that have already been mentioned.

But sure....make a point with a few words, who cares about reality and accuracy right?



Let's revist this: What "problem" are we trying to solve with shards?
1) Fractional math? Faustus already does all the math for you
2) Avoiding volatility? Shards don't accomplish this, complete failure
3) Easier Trade? For whom and when?

While failing at fixing these made up "problems", shards introduce a host of NEW problems into the system that already works fine:
1) Cumbersome nature of shards: we have had years of dealing with harbinger shards.....they are AWFUL.
2) Value-less currency: shards cannot be used
3) Extra steps for both sellers and buyers
4) Extra clicks and extra management for no reason

Things that consistently get ignored with these short "brilliant" points:
1) The buyer AND the seller
2) Those who are NOT dealing in divines, or dipping their toes in and out of divine territory
3) Extra steps
4) An over-exaggeration of how many sales would end up even being in "fractional divines"
5) The very basics of how the currency system works from the ground up in PoE: namely, rarity and usefulness of currency in relation to each other, NOT a static relationship.


To claim that introducing divine shards is "valid", you must prove that it actually fills a hole that NEEDS to be filled, or otherwise solves a prevalent issue. I have not seen a single post across many "shard" posts that accomplishes this. We haven't even seen existing shards within the game accomplish this. And now our main source of shards has even been removed from the game altogether. Almost like.....it didn't REALLY need to be there!


Put another way that people maybe can understand: divine shards already DO exist. They are called "chaos orbs". Or perhaps now with their increased prevalence, exalted orbs. What you can't wrap your mind around is that these shards (or cents) do not conform to a typical "base 10" relationship with divines. Instead, they are more flexible and useful, going up and down with the tides and changes within the game. An extreme STRENGTH of the PoE economic system over a simplified shard system. PoE is less a dollar-for-dollar system, and more a barter system where every single part of the equation is usable, and every currency holds multiple layers of "value": usefulness and rarity.