Regional Bazaar - AH-lite Alternative (GGG Compromise)

1. fuck poe trade, fuck RMT, fuck fixers
2. fuck friction, i have enough of that IRL
3. fuck original post, create ingame trade at the very least with features like Last Epoch

That is all.

(less friction -> more sales, more sales -> higher price, higher price -> less sales; having ingame AH wont suddenly turn 99% of players walking around with headhunter or mageblood, but it will make fixerbots absolutely nonexistant and RMTr lives worse - good thing)

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Henide#3803 wrote:

(less friction -> more sales, more sales -> higher price, higher price -> less sales; having ingame AH wont suddenly turn 99% of players walking around with headhunter or mageblood, but it will make fixerbots absolutely nonexistant and RMTr lives worse - good thing)

Market saturation doesn't lead to higher prices. Nobody with a basic grasp on economics thinks this would make everyone rich - the exact opposite would happen.

With the current system an average player has a chance of scraping some currency from mediocre loot; with instant b/o AH the vast majority of those items become worthless, because they will be listed in the thousands.

Instant buyout also punishes the less knowledgeable the most. Right now if you're clueless you at least have some chance to come to your senses when you get spammed a minute after listing something.

The reason currency trade has been added is because it is far easier to put some training wheels on that system. Every currency item of the kind is the same, thus you can guide players when they attempt to undersell something.
This is impossible with actual items.

Thus anything that's not perfect (or close to it) becomes vendor trash, whilst 'good' items become even harder for the average joe to afford. If you think this hits the 'RMTers' in some way, then you're beyond ignorant.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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Henide#3803 wrote:

(less friction -> more sales, more sales -> higher price, higher price -> less sales; having ingame AH wont suddenly turn 99% of players walking around with headhunter or mageblood, but it will make fixerbots absolutely nonexistant and RMTr lives worse - good thing)

Market saturation doesn't lead to higher prices. Nobody with a basic grasp on economics thinks this would make everyone rich - the exact opposite would happen.

With the current system an average player has a chance of scraping some currency from mediocre loot; with instant b/o AH the vast majority of those items become worthless, because they will be listed in the thousands.

Instant buyout also punishes the less knowledgeable the most. Right now if you're clueless you at least have some chance to come to your senses when you get spammed a minute after listing something.

The reason currency trade has been added is because it is far easier to put some training wheels on that system. Every currency item of the kind is the same, thus you can guide players when they attempt to undersell something.
This is impossible with actual items.

Thus anything that's not perfect (or close to it) becomes vendor trash, whilst 'good' items become even harder for the average joe to afford. If you think this hits the 'RMTers' in some way, then you're beyond ignorant.

How exactly market becomes more saturated if its easier to desaturate it (buying) ?
The more you sell X for 10, the more you are inclined to increase the price to 11, until you hit the supply/demand sweetspot.

You can be clueless only the first time, because someone bought your thing in seconds. If fools get tricked all the time, its their problem.

Fixers placing their wares for 1c that cost 50c at the minimum however leads to fools thinking they are selling their stuff for 1c and winning (as it is now).

Didnt really understood the point about currency, its entirely player made, GGG did not come and say "thy shall use chaos orbs and div orbs to trade, mortal".

Vendor trash or not, how would ingame AH (need to stop calling it AH, because nobody wants 'auction house' just ingame trade system) impact it, i put my vendor trash for 1c in a stash tab and shit disappears or not i dont care, but this time i dont have to waste my time tping back to hideout just because some newbie saw a good item thats useful for him for 1c. Poe trade leads to vendor trash actually never appearing because people stop bothering with trades below 20c in the endgame (because time wasted on tping in/out).

Ingame market would actually increase amount of shit/mediocre items in market.

of course it would hit RMT'rs lol, because vast majority of players have access to more items and its easier to buy/sell.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

How exactly market becomes more saturated if its easier to desaturate it (buying) ?
The more you sell X for 10, the more you are inclined to increase the price to 11, until you hit the supply/demand sweetspot.

You answered your own question. The supply for mediocre items is far greater than the demand. The market becomes more and more saturated over time. Removing any 'friction' from listing those items (which is what you want - isn't?) amplifies the issue.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

You can be clueless only the first time, because someone bought your thing in seconds. If fools get tricked all the time, its their problem.

No. That is only true with items that always have the same properties. It takes far more 'trial and error' than that in order to learn how to price items in poe.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Fixers placing their wares for 1c that cost 50c at the minimum however leads to fools thinking they are selling their stuff for 1c and winning (as it is now).

Most trade macros will ignore the majority of price fixing. It is also trivially easy to spot. It is a problem however and nowhere did I claim otherwise.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Didnt really understood the point about currency, its entirely player made, GGG did not come and say "thy shall use chaos orbs and div orbs to trade, mortal".

The point is that each currency item is exactly the same, hence it is far easier to guide the player to its actual value at the time of sale.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Ingame market would actually increase amount of shit/mediocre items in market.

Yes. That's what I said.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

of course it would hit RMT'rs lol, because vast majority of players have access to more items and its easier to buy/sell.

I've explained to you why making things be easier to sell doesn't automatically increase player wealth. This would increase the price gap between mediocre and good loot. You'd sell more for far less than you used to and still be unable to afford 'big ticket' items.

RMT is always going to be around in games that have an in-game economy, allow for unrestricted (doesn't mean frictionless) trading and introduce a lot of chase items.

Guys, do you really don't understand that this system of trading with obligatory visiting of hideout and trade face to face serve the main purpose to push sales of Hideouts and Hideout stuff.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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Henide#3803 wrote:

How exactly market becomes more saturated if its easier to desaturate it (buying) ?
The more you sell X for 10, the more you are inclined to increase the price to 11, until you hit the supply/demand sweetspot.

You answered your own question. The supply for mediocre items is far greater than the demand. The market becomes more and more saturated over time. Removing any 'friction' from listing those items (which is what you want - isn't?) amplifies the issue.

"

Henide#3803 wrote:

You can be clueless only the first time, because someone bought your thing in seconds. If fools get tricked all the time, its their problem.

No. That is only true with items that always have the same properties. It takes far more 'trial and error' than that in order to learn how to price items in poe.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Fixers placing their wares for 1c that cost 50c at the minimum however leads to fools thinking they are selling their stuff for 1c and winning (as it is now).

Most trade macros will ignore the majority of price fixing. It is also trivially easy to spot. It is a problem however and nowhere did I claim otherwise.

"

Henide#3803 wrote:

Didnt really understood the point about currency, its entirely player made, GGG did not come and say "thy shall use chaos orbs and div orbs to trade, mortal".

The point is that each currency item is exactly the same, hence it is far easier to guide the player to its actual value at the time of sale.

"

Henide#3803 wrote:

Ingame market would actually increase amount of shit/mediocre items in market.

Yes. That's what I said.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

of course it would hit RMT'rs lol, because vast majority of players have access to more items and its easier to buy/sell.

I've explained to you why making things be easier to sell doesn't automatically increase player wealth. This would increase the price gap between mediocre and good loot. You'd sell more for far less than you used to and still be unable to afford 'big ticket' items.

RMT is always going to be around in games that have an in-game economy, allow for unrestricted (doesn't mean frictionless) trading and introduce a lot of chase items.

Who cares about shit 1c items, or are you seeing it a problem that new players have sane access to the game ? You want others to eat glass because you've been eating glass for the last 10 years ? I dont get it.

The wares that actually matter, wont get oversaturated in the market, the wares that matter however WONT be pricefixed by fixers and circulated instantly by RMT bots. Sure some losers will sell mageblood for 20c plenty of times, who cares.

I want sane trading ingame, I want poe trade to be gone, and fixers to be gone.

Holy shit explain to me how come Last Epoch managed yet PoE is twiddling its thumbs.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Holy shit explain to me how come Last Epoch managed yet PoE is twiddling its thumbs.

Last Epoch doesn't have frictionless trading. Their system also faces every single issue I've pointed out.

I don't know why you're assuming I'm against adding in-game trade - I'm not, I'm simply pointing out to you that it does not come without downsides.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Holy shit explain to me how come Last Epoch managed yet PoE is twiddling its thumbs.

Last Epoch doesn't have frictionless trading. Their system also faces every single issue I've pointed out.

I don't know why you're assuming I'm against adding in-game trade - I'm not, I'm simply pointing out to you that it does not come without downsides.

Did i say make ingame trading system completely free ? Surely not. Whatever, gamify it and add some costs, of course it must have some money sink. I just want poe.trade to be nuked from orbit.