Disagree with your assertion on getting more fossils elsewhere. This is for a few reasons but mostly depth level. Not sure what depth you are at all... you arent even on the HS on ninja Hardcore Settlers for depth. Looks like you dont even interact with delve.
You definitely get more from delve than running logbooks.
Pretty much just disagree entirely about everything from this part.
Edit: I found your depth level of... 61 actually. You're kidding me right?
2) Betrayal
Spoiler
Betrayal changes were a bit silly will agree.
But ive ran it in every single one of my trees. Not a horrible mechanic at all though. Just the changes were a bit questionable.
3) Heist
Spoiler
Eh its a mechanic away from everything for the people that enjoy it.
There is a gambling aspect to it though, I would agree, and getting the same fn thing in multiple curios IN THE SAME WING is kind of hilarious.
Theres touch ups they could still do for the casual audience for sure. For hardcore heist runners though, this mechanic is still top tier for earning. But you have a designed character for it.
I think that's the intended approach of Heist, have a super specialized character and its worth. Or kind of have this normal run of the mil build and not the best returns.
Similar to sanctum or any lab runner really.
4) Expedition
Spoiler
Still as lucrative as ever, if you enjoy sitting in front of Tujen for hours. I personally have over 150 rerolls .... from all the Syndicate I ran.
Gwennen was laughably excluded from settlers lol. I never liked her mechanic anyways. Its a gambling mechanic thats there for people that enjoy that stuff.
Logbooks are still as money as ever... I would agree they COULD add runes to it if they wanted to keep the enchants going forward. Still insane returns on these.
5) Breach
Spoiler
I havent touched this since they removed the specific sextants where you could force chayula and what not.
Cant really say if its good or not.
Having just double rings would be broken though lol, thats essentially making the reflected mirrored items useless in comparison, and they lose all their values.
6) Legion
Spoiler
Kind of the same boat as breach, havent ran since sextants dont really see the point or issue.
They need to make incubators just stackable and remove all the leveling associated with them
7) Blight, Ritual, Sanctum, Harvest
Spoiler
Yup I like these mechanics
8) Scarabs
Spoiler
Disagree
Not sure why you dislike scarabs, they are pretty striaghtforward and open up a passive tree of possibility for combinations. Way better than sitting and rolling stupid sextants we had previously, and their tedium to trade as well.
Scarabs probably the best thing to happen in terms of map modification for direct rewards.
9) Kirac Missions
Spoiler
Think this is their intended use and its nice to have.
10) Uniques and Base Types
Spoiler
Disagree massively.
I see this argument all the time. And it pretty much dismisses the fact that uniques have insane modifiers you cant get anywhere else. It should be a trade off for that power. Otherwise what you are asking for is just a mirror tier items that are easy to access.
If you buff these to the new base types... than whats the point of the new base types?
11) Currency exchange fees
Spoiler
Yea there is some work they can do here. Its their first iteration of the system.
12) Bubblegum premise
Spoiler
I dont know you seem to base everything on delve, which you dont interact with at all, in comparison to other mechanics.
I can say this confidently that you DO NOT get more fossils from Tujen than you would get in the same time from delve. Or resonators for that matter.
You say you delved for a week but on the HS ninja I dont see your character(s) at any depth at all. And you didnt get the 400 depth challenge either. 0 Aul challenge, something a week in delve would easily be done in.
Nvm I found your depth on ladders 61.... no dude just no...
To respond to you about my Delving experience, I am around 330 depth this league and other leagues were around 1k and did not bother to get deeper as it was the same stuff over and over again with bosses being just sponges and to add to that nothing has changed with it ever since it was released.
I do not compete on any leaderboards as it is not something I can be bothered with. Seems like you checked the the Depth for @Draegnarrr not me.
The reason why I mentioned the fossil situation was solely because that was my experience around getting more of them from other leagues mechanics like Tujen Gamba and Logbooks rather than from Delve itself. That's all there is to it, my own experience and all the feedback is based on it.
EDIT: the whole bubblegum premise is about all the league mechanics rewarding you currencies and items from other league mechanics, rendering the prices of lower tiers worthless as I can just get them anywhere, whereas if I could only get them in that mechanic would reward only people engaging with it, rather than everyone. It is not about profit itself which I can make anyway.
Last edited by Sidushi on Sep 19, 2024, 3:01:45 PM
To respond to you about my Delving experience, I am around 330 depth this league and other leagues were around 1k and did not bother to get deeper as it was the same stuff over and over again with bosses being just sponges and to add to that nothing has changed with it ever since it was released.
I do not compete on any leaderboards as it is not something I can be bothered with. Seems like you checked the the Depth for @Draegnarrr not me.
The reason why I mentioned the fossil situation was solely because that was my experience around getting more of them from other leagues mechanics like Tujen Gamba and Logbooks rather than from Delve itself. That's all there is to it, my own experience and all the feedback is based on it.
Yea my mistake on the mixup.
Leaderboards tell us where people are depth wise, its not a competition thing its just what the information gives us. I check it when people say delve is bad this and delve is bad that because 10/10 times its them not running delve or being deep enough.
If you are getting more fossils from Tujen then you just dont know how to run delve, I dont know what else to tell you.
You are able to get substantially more, and you cant even get the high tier ones either from Tujen. And you definitely dont get anywhere near the amount of resonators as well.
I get that stuff comming from other league content at a high magnitude is silly, its something GGG worked on with heist in a previous patch. And acknowledged it.
But to suggest you are getting more fossils from Tujen than you would get if you ran delve is a bit absurd.
Thats probably your experience as you are running Tujen a bunch and not so much delve. But that doesnt mean more fossils come from Tujen and not delve. Thats just you not running delve lol.
To respond to you about my Delving experience, I am around 330 depth this league and other leagues were around 1k and did not bother to get deeper as it was the same stuff over and over again with bosses being just sponges and to add to that nothing has changed with it ever since it was released.
I do not compete on any leaderboards as it is not something I can be bothered with. Seems like you checked the the Depth for @Draegnarrr not me.
The reason why I mentioned the fossil situation was solely because that was my experience around getting more of them from other leagues mechanics like Tujen Gamba and Logbooks rather than from Delve itself. That's all there is to it, my own experience and all the feedback is based on it.
Yea my mistake on the mixup.
Leaderboards tell us where people are depth wise, its not a competition thing its just what the information gives us. I check it when people say delve is bad this and delve is bad that because 10/10 times its them not running delve or being deep enough.
If you are getting more fossils from Tujen then you just dont know how to run delve, I dont know what else to tell you.
You are able to get substantially more, and you cant even get the high tier ones either from Tujen. And you definitely dont get anywhere near the amount of resonators as well.
EDIT: like I mentioned it is not about the profit at all, it is about feeling rewarded for doing a league mechanic and the exclusivity of the items and rewards you get. Hence if it drops everywhere, low value, bubblegum.
I get that stuff comming from other league content at a high magnitude is silly, its something GGG worked on with heist in a previous patch. And acknowledged it.
But to suggest you are getting more fossils from Tujen than you would get if you ran delve is a bit absurd.
Thats probably your experience as you are running Tujen a bunch and not so much delve. But that doesnt mean more fossils come from Tujen and not delve. Thats just you not running delve lol.
That's one of the things I did this league is to give week or more per each mechanic that exists to compare what I can get out of them and unfortunately that has been the experience that I got :( same was with Heist, run around 200 wings i83 blueprints and it was the same replicas in the room, sometimes even 3 of the same item.
EDIT: Like I mentioned it is not about the profit at all, it's all about feeling rewarded as a player for getting the items that are exclusive, but if they feed you them everywhere, it is bubblegum.
Last edited by Sidushi on Sep 19, 2024, 3:20:34 PM
That's one of the things I did this league is to give week or more per each mechanic that exists to compare what I can get out of them and unfortunately that has been the experience that I got :( same was with Heist, run around 200 wings i83 blueprints and it was the same replicas in the room, sometimes even 3 of the same item.
EDIT: Like I mentioned it is not about the profit at all, it's all about feeling rewarded as a player for getting the items that are exclusive, but if they feed you them everywhere, it is bubblegum.
Welp, you need to learn how to break open walls then, and also path correctly. Like you have to just not be doing that or have a slow character or both to be getting more fossils from tujen than delve.
You also arent getting any of the delve explicit nodes either from tujen either. Any curse on hit rings, no conversion gloves, no spectre chests, no +minion boots nothing...
You are at a magnitude of about 50x more resonators from delve as well. City nodes map sustain... and then you get Doryanis, Auls, etc.. from bossing.
As well as all the higher tier fossils you get from Delve.
NONE of which you can get from Tujen.
I get the sense that you have a very rudimentary understanding of delve and dont really know how to run it, but run logbooks exclusively, with everything you have to say about delve.
That's one of the things I did this league is to give week or more per each mechanic that exists to compare what I can get out of them and unfortunately that has been the experience that I got :( same was with Heist, run around 200 wings i83 blueprints and it was the same replicas in the room, sometimes even 3 of the same item.
EDIT: Like I mentioned it is not about the profit at all, it's all about feeling rewarded as a player for getting the items that are exclusive, but if they feed you them everywhere, it is bubblegum.
Welp, you need to learn how to break open walls then, and also path correctly. Like you have to just not be doing that or have a slow character or both to be getting more fossils from tujen than delve.
You also arent getting any of the delve explicit nodes either from tujen either. Any curse on hit rings, no conversion gloves, no spectre chests, no +minion boots nothing...
You are at a magnitude of about 50x more resonators from delve as well. City nodes map sustain... and then you get Doryanis, Auls, etc.. from bossing.
As well as all the higher tier fossils you get from Delve.
NONE of which you can get from Tujen.
I get the sense that you have a very rudimentary understanding of delve and dont really know how to run it, but run logbooks exclusively, with everything you have to say about delve.
I still do not think you quite got my point so let me rephrase it.
I am not talking about any exclusive content that you get in Delve, like Gilded Fossils, Aul's Amulet etc. I am not talking about exclusive content of any of the league mechanics in fact.
My point here all the time was the items and currency that you get from one mechanic that leaked to other ones.
Thus I did 100 Logbooks got a lot of coins and artifacts, kept on rerolling Tujen 200x and almost every time got a fossils, whereas in Delve I did not see 200 nodes of fossils on my way down to 300+ I would have to meander sideways to find any and they would drop just 1 regardless of whatever fossil it was and all the nodes on the way were garbage.
EDIT: To add to it, you run expedition in the map you get the rewards, you go do the logbook you get the rewards and all the exclusive content, bosses etc. then you get artifacts and gamba and get the rewards.
Now, you run Niko you get Sulphite, and if lucky you get Azurite(everyone can get the node and get it)
Now you go delve you waste sulphite to delve deeper through all the garbage nodes that barely reward you with anything until the city or good fossil. The effort you put into it is not proportional to what you can get. Plus it gets indefinitely harder than any other content in the game.
Last edited by Sidushi on Sep 19, 2024, 4:33:56 PM
Disagree with your assertion on getting more fossils elsewhere. This is for a few reasons but mostly depth level. Not sure what depth you are at all... you arent even on the HS on ninja Hardcore Settlers for depth. Looks like you dont even interact with delve.
You definitely get more from delve than running logbooks.
Pretty much just disagree entirely about everything from this part.
Edit: I found your depth level of... 61 actually. You're kidding me right?
2) Betrayal
Spoiler
Betrayal changes were a bit silly will agree.
But ive ran it in every single one of my trees. Not a horrible mechanic at all though. Just the changes were a bit questionable.
3) Heist
Spoiler
Eh its a mechanic away from everything for the people that enjoy it.
There is a gambling aspect to it though, I would agree, and getting the same fn thing in multiple curios IN THE SAME WING is kind of hilarious.
Theres touch ups they could still do for the casual audience for sure. For hardcore heist runners though, this mechanic is still top tier for earning. But you have a designed character for it.
I think that's the intended approach of Heist, have a super specialized character and its worth. Or kind of have this normal run of the mil build and not the best returns.
Similar to sanctum or any lab runner really.
4) Expedition
Spoiler
Still as lucrative as ever, if you enjoy sitting in front of Tujen for hours. I personally have over 150 rerolls .... from all the Syndicate I ran.
Gwennen was laughably excluded from settlers lol. I never liked her mechanic anyways. Its a gambling mechanic thats there for people that enjoy that stuff.
Logbooks are still as money as ever... I would agree they COULD add runes to it if they wanted to keep the enchants going forward. Still insane returns on these.
5) Breach
Spoiler
I havent touched this since they removed the specific sextants where you could force chayula and what not.
Cant really say if its good or not.
Having just double rings would be broken though lol, thats essentially making the reflected mirrored items useless in comparison, and they lose all their values.
6) Legion
Spoiler
Kind of the same boat as breach, havent ran since sextants dont really see the point or issue.
They need to make incubators just stackable and remove all the leveling associated with them
7) Blight, Ritual, Sanctum, Harvest
Spoiler
Yup I like these mechanics
8) Scarabs
Spoiler
Disagree
Not sure why you dislike scarabs, they are pretty striaghtforward and open up a passive tree of possibility for combinations. Way better than sitting and rolling stupid sextants we had previously, and their tedium to trade as well.
Scarabs probably the best thing to happen in terms of map modification for direct rewards.
9) Kirac Missions
Spoiler
Think this is their intended use and its nice to have.
10) Uniques and Base Types
Spoiler
Disagree massively.
I see this argument all the time. And it pretty much dismisses the fact that uniques have insane modifiers you cant get anywhere else. It should be a trade off for that power. Otherwise what you are asking for is just a mirror tier items that are easy to access.
If you buff these to the new base types... than whats the point of the new base types?
11) Currency exchange fees
Spoiler
Yea there is some work they can do here. Its their first iteration of the system.
12) Bubblegum premise
Spoiler
I dont know you seem to base everything on delve, which you dont interact with at all, in comparison to other mechanics.
I can say this confidently that you DO NOT get more fossils from Tujen than you would get in the same time from delve. Or resonators for that matter.
You say you delved for a week but on the HS ninja I dont see your character(s) at any depth at all. And you didnt get the 400 depth challenge either. 0 Aul challenge, something a week in delve would easily be done in.
Nvm I found your depth on ladders 61.... no dude just no...
Now let me address some other items and skip Delve & Expedition.
Breach and double rings, while this would be mirror tier, I would not see a harm of it being a t0 drop like Simplex and would benefit that mechanic a lot to give it a chase item.
Scarabs, scarabs everywhere they are great I never said they are bad, they are all that matters in the economy and I do not think it should be the intention.
Kirac Missions have a place indeed, but among all the other things on the Atlas tree they do no have a place in the end-game thus should be reworked to offer endgame rewards and not waste a spot on the Atlas tree, otherwise just move them to one corner on the tree so I dont have to go around it through the middle.
Uniques and new Base Types, the whole reason why the new bases were introduced was Melee Rework, so you have enough defences and because of that it made most of the uniques bad as they are not up to par.
Last edited by Sidushi on Sep 19, 2024, 4:58:12 PM
Now let me address some other items and skip Delve & Expedition.
Breach and double rings, while this would be mirror tier, I would not see a harm of it being a t0 drop like Simplex and would benefit that mechanic a lot to give it a chase item.
Scarabs, scarabs everywhere they are great I never said they are bad, they are all that matters in the economy and I do not think it should be the intention.
Kirac Missions have a place indeed, but among all the other things on the Atlas tree they do no have a place in the end-game thus should be reworked to offer endgame rewards and not waste a spot on the Atlas tree, otherwise just move them to one corner on the tree so I dont have to go around it through the middle.
Uniques and new Base Types, the whole reason why the new bases were introduced was Melee Rework, so you have enough defences and because of that it made most of the uniques bad as they are not up to par.
Wrong. New base types were added to get rid of the determination + grace aura meta. Has nothing to do with melee rework at all. The marketing of mark got you good.
to me i feel that there are things that should be bubble gummed and things that should not.
from what i know we cannot get the highest tier of goodies from one league via bubble gum effect. which is not entirely true.
i wouldnt mind if the bubble gum effect only applied to low to mid tier rewards and no rewards should be better than "upper mid tier". you want the best stuff? do the league mechanic.
the best anti bubble gum implements i've seen are alva and bestiary. if you run either, you have access to their content. if you dont you still can gain access but by buying the itemized rewards from other players.
itemized rewards to me is the key component.
one reason why i hated betrayal is because it can leave you in a bad place. back when the rewards mattered, you could have a bonkers good betrayal board setup with juicy rewards all lined up, but then you would have to rely on TFT (gasp) in order to sell the rewards that you didnt want to use.
its not uncommon for me to see some poor bloke even giving out free rewards out of desperation as to not waste the reward.
as for the intersection of gold and league content. that's entirely on GGG designing league content with no consideration of how they interact with other league mechanics.
sanctum for example gave ZERO reason for players to run heist/delve. if you wanted to do sanctum, you needed to grind maps.
when you talk about bubblegum its mostly in a negative light but for settler's, bubble gum effect is absolutely needed. if league mechanics dropped more gold or even get raw ores for smelting as rewards, players would be more inclined to run different mechanics.
but on the other end of the spectrum we need bubblegum for more orphaned items such as tattoos.
to me i feel that there are things that should be bubble gummed and things that should not.
from what i know we cannot get the highest tier of goodies from one league via bubble gum effect. which is not entirely true.
i wouldnt mind if the bubble gum effect only applied to low to mid tier rewards and no rewards should be better than "upper mid tier". you want the best stuff? do the league mechanic.
the best anti bubble gum implements i've seen are alva and bestiary. if you run either, you have access to their content. if you dont you still can gain access but by buying the itemized rewards from other players.
itemized rewards to me is the key component.
one reason why i hated betrayal is because it can leave you in a bad place. back when the rewards mattered, you could have a bonkers good betrayal board setup with juicy rewards all lined up, but then you would have to rely on TFT (gasp) in order to sell the rewards that you didnt want to use.
its not uncommon for me to see some poor bloke even giving out free rewards out of desperation as to not waste the reward.
as for the intersection of gold and league content. that's entirely on GGG designing league content with no consideration of how they interact with other league mechanics.
sanctum for example gave ZERO reason for players to run heist/delve. if you wanted to do sanctum, you needed to grind maps.
when you talk about bubblegum its mostly in a negative light but for settler's, bubble gum effect is absolutely needed. if league mechanics dropped more gold or even get raw ores for smelting as rewards, players would be more inclined to run different mechanics.
but on the other end of the spectrum we need bubblegum for more orphaned items such as tattoos.
I do agree with you that the bubblegum should exist for various items/currencies, the reasons why it is coming mostly negative from me is because:
- All the mechanics require you to do the maps to do the to gain access to such mechanic
- All mechanics have exclusive content etc.
Then you have those that lock you out in a separate instance where you don't gain the "passive bonuses" like regular loot etc. vs the mechanics that have all of that plus the gamba mechanic stealing away portion of loot tables from everything undervaluing even more already "instance locked" mechanics.
Take ritual for example exclusive rewards like omens/king of the mist, it surely can give you synth/fractured etc. items and that is fine I guess.
Now imagine if it only offered you Omens and King of the Mist invite, would you still run it? It does not offer enough with its own exclusive rewards.
In my opinion, each league/mechanic should have a pool of exclusive rewards big enough to be viable without relying on any gamba/bubblegum and should be designed around it first before you throw in all other things into it.
The main factor here what should be a bubblegum and what not would be:
- If currency item can drop in a map can be a bubblegum, like essence etc.
- Fossils dont drop in the maps, no bubblegum
Take a look:
Worth running based simply on exclusive rewards
Heist:
- Replicas
- Amulets
- Rings
- Orbs
Delve:
- Fossils
- Aul and other boss related loot
- Resonators
I do agree with you that the bubblegum should exist for various items/currencies, the reasons why it is coming mostly negative from me is because:
- All the mechanics require you to do the maps to do the to gain access to such mechanic
- All mechanics have exclusive content etc.
Then you have those that lock you out in a separate instance where you don't gain the "passive bonuses" like regular loot etc. vs the mechanics that have all of that plus the gamba mechanic stealing away portion of loot tables from everything undervaluing even more already "instance locked" mechanics.
Take ritual for example exclusive rewards like omens/king of the mist, it surely can give you synth/fractured etc. items and that is fine I guess.
Now imagine if it only offered you Omens and King of the Mist invite, would you still run it? It does not offer enough with its own exclusive rewards.
In my opinion, each league/mechanic should have a pool of exclusive rewards big enough to be viable without relying on any gamba/bubblegum and should be designed around it first before you throw in all other things into it.
The main factor here what should be a bubblegum and what not would be:
- If currency item can drop in a map can be a bubblegum, like essence etc.
- Fossils dont drop in the maps, no bubblegum
Take a look:
Worth running based simply on exclusive rewards
Heist:
- Replicas
- Amulets
- Rings
- Orbs
Delve:
- Fossils
- Aul and other boss related loot
- Resonators
Not worth:
- Legion, only random jewels
- Ritual, omens and King of the Mist
- Syndicate, only Veiled orb, maybe paradoxica
I would really like to see this happen, Its also a shame to see synthesis simply an addition to other mechanics loot but i doubt we see that league reintroduced or its actual synthesis mechanic.
