t17 meta is quite boring?

hey first i will say what feels bad at the moment ;)

you did remove sextants so it becomes easier and less trading to run maps
great idea. did it work?
well graveyard made it WAY WORSE to run maps since you needed 4 scarabs and many meatsacks etc. you had to buy 1by1. glad that is gone

so now we actually add 5 scarabs a map and go. sounds good in theory but the practical part looks a bit different.
why? because now you need t17!

which could be fun. with emphasis on could be. because that is only once you are rich! (in game) sure then my complaint does not matter. before that however....sorry but its just boring!

you farm 70 t16 maps just to farm t17. oh and don't forget that you kinda need to invest 5 divines for those 70 maps. so you get 8 mod so you drop more t17.

and then you run those 70 maps. before on t16 you could do league mechanics that gave loot. or have loot explosion or go for quant gear to maybe get a div here and ther...now???? NOTHING exciting can happen!!!

no more loot explosions!!!
no currency drops!!!!
no valdos!!!!
nothing!!!

since there is no quant there is nothing you can do to change that.
the only thing you can do is to add scarab nodes and BLOCK MOST LEAGUE MECHANICS. why? because they don't drop things that values your time. no currency! no items you need! and low scarab chance!

so farming those t17 maps becomes very monotone. sure maps are easy and fast... but boring and not exciting.

you just run 70 maps and the MOST exciting thing that can happen is...OH I GOT TWO t17 and maybe 2 divines.
if in the same time you would run t17 it would rain divines and scarabs.

sorry that's just boring i know i repeat myself here ;D

then after 70 boring! maps you finally can go to 30-40 t17 maps and ACTUALLY do some farming. oh but those scarabs cost like 2 divine each so i kinda need 60 divine for the ambush scarab? oh but the t16 did not drop anything like that SOOO lets sell half of those t17 to get scarabs ;D or run cheap strategies with cheap scarabs that give less profit. uhhhh thats uhh whyyy.

sure once you swim in divines that is not a problem anymore
you just invest 300 divine and BUY 100 maps and 500 scarabs.
sure then the game IS fun and your divines will become more and more.
so spending divine before that 300 threshold is a bad idea but since t17 are hard you still kinda need to do it. to figure out that part to find a smooth progression is actually fun IF you have time.

but for people who start late.... or had not much time to grind

to just grind t16 to be able to go t17 is SO BORING.

removing quant from gear was certainly THE RIGHT decision.

BUT it also made most League mechanics a useless waste of time compared to t17 drops.that does not value your time at all!
how could we fix that?
i dunno maybe bring loot explosions back, now that quant is gone? or just give every player 20-40 quant when they reach lvl 100? then it would be fun to lvl to max?
or just buff the older league mechanics to drop more scarabs/currency?
im sure there are other ways to boost the fun of running those t16 while you farm t17 ;D but please do something at the moment it feels very stale.

and i would love this thread to be about ideas HOW to make t16 MORE fun again ;) even if it came over more as a rant so far tehe.

sure there is poe 2 soon but i think there would be fixes that just makes running t16 more fun and rewarding again.

or just make it more easy to get t17
if all the currency is made on t17 why make it such a time/divine gated thing to get them?

i know games are wasting time in a way and the best div/hour is still to go work and buy divs. at least in a rich country like mine. but thats another problem!

i should get more divines from playing a game one hour than from working one hour and buy divs you farm in a week :D and no i don't do RMT its just a sour aftertaste if you know the prices... bro if i just did one hour more at work i could prob buy two mirrors or more!!!! you know it just feels bad sitting there for hours for the same result. but that is hard to fix if not impossible.

however i feel to make t16 and old league mechanics worthwhile and most importantly FUN again or t17 easy to get would be possible to do ;)

have a nice day people. and please leave your ideas how we could achieve that.

and yes i am aware at the start of the league you can sell all those 8 mods for quite some profit.
and the strat is not that bad. but it is boring ;D

sanctum is still profitable so is delve. other things like legion or delirium feels kind of bad. the chances to get 3 passive voices or that one timeless jewel everyone wants are so low you could probably do it all league and not finding one.
bossing is in quite a good spot i think. feels quite rewarding. but its another thing that just shifts farm on t17. all in all the game is quite good ;D not that you think why you play it then. its just that one part i dislike a lot and think it could be improved.

I will say I think having to do your t17s that have stacked up after a while is boring, it's like "oh great time to do my t17s". It feels like a chore, doesn't help that they drop way more gold than t16 8-mod maps too. They could definitely buff some league mechanics because what I do every league atm is block 8 or 9 of them on the atlas tree and only do 1 thing with all the scarab drop nodes, so I'm only dropping the good scarabs and the bad ones are blocked. Breach for example has felt horrible ever since they changed how many splinters it drops. It feels so pointless to run when you get like 3 splinters from a breach in a t16 lol

I think they should revert all those changes to league monsters having 2000% quant and rarity and so on that they did a while ago(without telling the playerbase ofc, let's not forget that). If they revert those now that item quant is gone from gear then ground loot and league mechanics might just feel a bit more like how they used to, and maybe they should just buff the amount of packsize,rarity and quant that normal map mods give t16s(not the effectiveness of the mods themselves though, leave the numbers of the mods the same).

Well, first off a disclaimer, I only skimmed everything after the first paragraph, so I may have missed some things. That was quite a rant.

Sounds like TLDR is:
You feel like T16's aren't rewarding enough
Youre too broke to run T17's properly



You didn't mention what T16 strats you have tried. The blanket statement that they arent rewarding is just false though. There are plenty of T16 options, across all investment and gear levels, that generate plenty of profit.

T16 strats I personally know to be profitable this league:

Incursion- Low investment, can be run by any build on any map. Steady income from temple completes, jackpot factor low, but can get streaks of extra temples from scarab.

Harbinger- Medium investment, requires tankier build and works better in specific layouts. Steady supply of raw currency. Jackpot factor high, can drop a mirror.

Ritual Stacked Decks- Low investment, highly favours very specific map layouts, has annoying prox shield mods. Stacked decks very easy to liquidate in bulk. Jackpot factor variable. Ritual rewards feel bad, but have potential in theory. Also have the option to choose gamba and open the stacked decks instead of selling.



For T17 complaints:

1. If you do it right, they are self sustaining. You don't need to run T16's once your build can handle reasonably juiced T17's. (hint you can buy T17 maps, you dont have to wait for them to drop)

2. T17's are how you should be getting your 8-mod T16maps. If you can handle most 8-mods, you can handle farming 8-mods in a T17. Medium investment (low by T17 standards), Supplies all the 8-mods you could ever need for self use, and you dont have to deal with TFT or asking for regex, significantly cheaper than buying them in bulk when you factor in bubble gum loot and scarab drops). Jackpot factor medium, based on map rolls. (low for t17).

Is not a question about sustaining t17s , its a question of it they are actually fun to chain.

And I would argue they really aren't. There are so many trap mods in the t17 pool that either make the map ridiculously rippy or exceedingly tedious that you need a regex tool just to make the process of rolling them fast enough to the tolerable .

Between these mods and the increased mod effect nodes on the atlas tree.. we are really encouraged to build around the mods rather than build something fun.

this league alone I have completely given up on:

elemental builds because of reflect
physical builds because of reflect
auras , because there is a mod that basically turns them off
life leech because there is mod that turns it off
non instant life flasks .. because of a mod
mana regen, because there is a mod

armor / es and / evasion because the aura mod/ reduce defenses mod

And this is before stuff like rares taking % of you and your minions life every hit

petrification statues

and even more on death effects mods.

T17 was a good idea but done poorly.
We have this rich endgame maps system letting you chose which maps you want to run but now you are forced into few shitty layouts.
If I had any say in it I would just have a T17 version for each map, running T16 Atoll would drop T17 Atolls and so on. For bosses? Killing map boss would generate a portal like Conqueror maps or just flat our remove them and find another use for those bosses. (With this suggestion Uber boss splinters would drop from the non uber variant)

"

MaxW81 wrote:

T17 was a good idea but done poorly.
We have this rich endgame maps system letting you chose which maps you want to run but now you are forced into few shitty layouts.
If I had any say in it I would just have a T17 version for each map, running T16 Atoll would drop T17 Atolls and so on. For bosses? Killing map boss would generate a portal like Conqueror maps or just flat our remove them and find another use for those bosses. (With this suggestion Uber boss splinters would drop from the non uber variant)

That's a great idea, I'd love to run a t17 version of my fav map and still get the uber boss fragments from it.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

Is not a question about sustaining t17s , its a question of it they are actually fun to chain.

And I would argue they really aren't. There are so many trap mods in the t17 pool that either make the map ridiculously rippy or exceedingly tedious that you need a regex tool just to make the process of rolling them fast enough to the tolerable .

Between these mods and the increased mod effect nodes on the atlas tree.. we are really encouraged to build around the mods rather than build something fun.

this league alone I have completely given up on:

elemental builds because of reflect
physical builds because of reflect
auras , because there is a mod that basically turns them off
life leech because there is mod that turns it off
non instant life flasks .. because of a mod
mana regen, because there is a mod

armor / es and / evasion because the aura mod/ reduce defenses mod

And this is before stuff like rares taking % of you and your minions life every hit

petrification statues

and even more on death effects mods.

1. Do you like when your loot filter makes the good noise? I do, so yes it is fun. T17's are insanely rewarding.

2. Complaining that T17's require you to care about game mechanics just seems ridiculous. T17 are end game content. You should not be able to blast through endgame content, ignoring all the mods and not dying, without being insanely over geared. The problem is you got used to being able to do that in T16's and now that T17's exist, you feel like you should just automatically be allowed to do that there too. T17's were created as a new tier of mapping difficulty, and they are very good at that.

3. GGG has done a great job addressing issues with T17.

-Made them rollable with Chaos
-Removed back to basics atlas. this felt obligatory due to the massive bonus that was possible and was the biggest factor in making so many of the map mods unplayable.
-All around nerfed the difficulty (too much IMO)

4. The fact that you have so many things that you say you have "given up on" says more about your game knowledge and gearing than it does about any actual issues with game design.

-You can reroll maps, roll a map that doesnt have mods you legit can't do
-Build better defenses. Example, reflect immunity is available from a variety of sources.

"

Toforto wrote:

"

MaxW81 wrote:

T17 was a good idea but done poorly.
We have this rich endgame maps system letting you chose which maps you want to run but now you are forced into few shitty layouts.
If I had any say in it I would just have a T17 version for each map, running T16 Atoll would drop T17 Atolls and so on. For bosses? Killing map boss would generate a portal like Conqueror maps or just flat our remove them and find another use for those bosses. (With this suggestion Uber boss splinters would drop from the non uber variant)

That's a great idea, I'd love to run a t17 version of my fav map and still get the uber boss fragments from it.

Run juiced T16 8-mod corrupted version of your favorite map. Take profits, buy uber fragments. Problem solved.

"

Piousqd wrote:

"

Toforto wrote:

"

MaxW81 wrote:

T17 was a good idea but done poorly.
We have this rich endgame maps system letting you chose which maps you want to run but now you are forced into few shitty layouts.
If I had any say in it I would just have a T17 version for each map, running T16 Atoll would drop T17 Atolls and so on. For bosses? Killing map boss would generate a portal like Conqueror maps or just flat our remove them and find another use for those bosses. (With this suggestion Uber boss splinters would drop from the non uber variant)

That's a great idea, I'd love to run a t17 version of my fav map and still get the uber boss fragments from it.

Run juiced T16 8-mod corrupted version of your favorite map. Take profits, buy uber fragments. Problem solved.

That doesn't solve the fact that 17s still suck.

exactly that. at least one guy got the point ;D
if we block all league mechanics on t16 AND t17 they are clearly underperforming.
and that's why i said they need a buff.

i mean you can do harvest and take 7 div per map if the gamble goes well.
and sometimes you have a good base in ritual synth/fracture

but others just don't drop anymore and feel pointless.



to the other poster. you don't have to say that you did not read. since you missed the point. i can see that myself ;D
it does not matter if i can afford to buy t17 maps or not.
i even wrote later if you amassed wealth it is no big problem! and the divine you invest give you more divines than you invested.

but
at some point everyone has to do the t17 map farm until your build is ready and until you can skip that part with your stocked divines.

but even then you block all league mechanics cause they underperform.
the scarab prices tell you exactly what mechanics work and which do not. and most are 1c thus do not work at all compared to other strats.

you can also do profit on 8 mod with cheap ambush scarabs but that's.. .again not my point ;D