[3.22] The Forbidden Build 10 - DoT-Capped Healing - Tainted Pact Forbidden Rite Pathfinder

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blrsm wrote:

For those uninformed, wardloopers have solved the looping problem. cwdt.info ^.^

Also, I will possibly be releasing a DOT CAPPED slighty variation of this soon.

I’m really looking forward to it, I think many will be grateful to you!

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FIOWB wrote:

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blrsm wrote:

For those uninformed, wardloopers have solved the looping problem. cwdt.info ^.^

Also, I will possibly be releasing a DOT CAPPED slighty variation of this soon.

I’m really looking forward to it, I think many will be grateful to you!

Well, as promised, the day is here. Personally, I had alot of fun on the occultist version. A friend is still running (and improving) the pathfinder version, in SSF at that. I learned of this thread and Jousis after having followed my friend's PoB and having a working occultist build. It would probably work on assassin also, around similar power. Could probably make use of perfect agony and crit multi scaling.

The differences - Forbidden Rite isn't the damage dealer. Or in this build that much, really. We use the same tech as Jousis, but we're gonna throw in some lvl 1/20 cwdts. Bladefall + Ek of lingering blades(gmp+return proj) to throw out tons of lingering blades everywhere, Somewhere around 150+ a second. The ones from EK all end up on top of each other thanks to return proj. We also have frost bomb(for regen rares) and temp chains/despair also linked to lvl 1/20 cwdts(the curses could be on lvl 8 cwdt for higher level curse/slower application to save some mana) Then we take our big lvl 20 blade blast and manually cast it. Just pop it off 1-2 times a pack, maybe a time or two more for thick rares. On the Pathfinder version, he also has a weapon swap to deal with bubble rares. Since he doesn't path to window of opportunity, he has to use a less duration support to get his skele timer right. On his weapon swap, he's able to take the less duration off, have a cwdt linked to FR + skeles to have his loop be at the lower cooldown that the bubble mob makes you have.
We also decided to use the same weapon swap tech that wardloopers use to start the loop. So on zone transitions/stairs/ect all you do is break grace, and weapon swap 2x.

To initially start the loop, weapon swap 2x, hit FR + boots, and possibly pop forbidden taste. Sometimes the hbl hit me hard enough to count as a savage hit, sometimes it didn't.

SSF Pathfinder PoB: https://pobb.in/Y3Av1LoDblYV - The guy who we'll call HerbeDerp - he's the guy with the brains to put it all together.

Occultist w/MB PoB: https://pobb.in/CbFeNTqpUFpZ (not 100% finished, only lvl 84, jewel sockets empty, pathing probably isn't the most efficient, but this one is here to show the possibility. . . It is 100% working and has been since lvl 71 - doing t16s at that)

Some ideas - HerbeDerp has suggested that using a higherish level CWDT and blade blast could be possible to create an autobomber. You'd drop to 20-25m dps, if not less, but that's still more than enough for any t16 mapping.

From JustDoinThings(occultist) - I'd actually suggest not going the window of opportunity route, as it leaves no way consistent way to deal with bubble mobs besides self-casting FR in offhand, but i didn't have much success with that. . .
Also, since you're not going window of opportunity and need more to-dust jewels, spiritual aid quickly becomes the best annoint by far. It's roughly a 1/3 of the PF's dmg.

The fix for jousis's OG build in 3.23: Get 74% reduced duration on to-dusts and use the window of opportunity notable. Lvl 1/20 cwdt - lvl 1 skel for 9% cdr. For 27% cdr, you add in the Less Duration mastery located at the window of opportunity wheel.

Also - it was already mentioned in this thread, but you need a Blessed Rebirth notable somewhere to keep the skeletons from dieing early.

The reason I am mentioning the past with the occultist: Because I learned of replica tulfall and have been theorycrafting another CWDT tainted pact build. . . possibly slayer, possibly occultist, possibly won't matter.

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blrsm wrote:

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The reason I am mentioning the past with the occultist: Because I learned of replica tulfall and have been theorycrafting another CWDT tainted pact build. . . possibly slayer, possibly occultist, possibly won't matter.

I've been planning a pathfinder for weeks. I only recently started playing again and gained the currency to put this together. No mageblood, but it'll be using flask sustain from one charm and a handful of passives. The only thing I need to craft now is gloves before i start testing. I hope it works!

I'm the HerpeDerp mentioned two posts above and this league I've been trying to figure out a version of this build that uses blade blast rather than forbidden rite as the main damage source. There are also various other differences that make this build less silly than Jousis' original, but a lot stronger and easier to put together in SSF. Other than blade blast, the main difference is that I don't use Mahuxotl's Machination because I didn't want to farm ultimatums.



A quick summary:
30M+ boss dps with good clear. 15M+ UBER boss dps is easily possible if clear speed is sacrificed. 20M+ dps autobomber is possible if some defences are sacrificed.
Tainted pact healing for unlimited recovery as long as there are enemies to poison
Currently 13.7k phys, 33k elemental and 32k chaos max hit against non-spells. Higher is possible. Also 100% spell suppression chance
Easier to put together than Jousis' build, but still expensive to get very good phys max hit.
150% increased movement speed to zoom around
Can easily do all content I have tried so far, including feared and uber bosses. Doors, stairs and the brief stun when entering an incursion are the only real enemies

https://pobb.in/-vx4h6Fv5oYq




The basic mechanics of the build, with a focus on the differences from Jousis' build are the following:

Forbidden rite is not used as the main damage source. Instead, self cast blade blast is used. The lingering blades are generated by cwdt blade fall and ethereal knives of lingering blades. Blade fall with spell cascade generates 18 lingering blades per cast, spread out over an area. Ethereal knives of lingering blades with gmp and returning projectiles generates 13 lingering blades per cast all stacked on top of each other at your feet, if the terrain is sufficiently flat.

I also use the skeleton hbl loop and have some cdr to get it to 5.05 triggers per second. This means 31*5.05 = 156.55 lingering blades generated per second. I configured PoB to a more conservative 100 blades per second. A raise zombie of falling loop would be much slower and create fewer lingering blades. Blessed rebirth from a medium minion life cluster jewel keeps the skeletons alive long enough. I get 98% reduced skeleton duration from 5 To Dust jewels, and get the duration just right using a less duration support with specific level and quality.

I have used many different setups but right now I have 2 hbls just so that I can have more physical damage mitigation without breaking the cwdt loop. Because the damage from hbl comes in relative small hits, I avoid having any armor and instead have as much additional pdr and phys taken as as I can to get my phys max hit as high as possible. Currently I have 13.7k non-spell phys max hit but I'm still working on getting it higher.

I don't use Mahuxotl's Machination. I still need the Divine Flesh keystone to convert 50% of elemental dots to chaos dots so instead I get it from a glorious vanity. Becuase I don't have tempered by war I do still take elemental damage and do need elemental resistances, but that can be fixed easily using flasks (and I'm purity of elements in my current setup, but that's just a nice bonus. I don't use it for the resistances).

The free offhand slot allows me to use Apep's Slumber. There might be better options, but this is a very convenient one and relative easy to farm in SSF. The 3% max resistances and added chaos damage are nice, but not that significant. The +25% chance to be poisoned makes it so that the damage I take from hbl will poison me which gives a bit of extra life regen through tainted pact (convenient when you are taking damage from some sources that you cannot inflict poisons on, such as during the Eater of World's 'inescapable doom' phase) but most importantly this shield fixes most of the mana cost problems this build faces by providing a massive 400 energy shield regen at all times. All damage bypasses energy shield because of Divine Flesh, so Eldritch Battery is a no brainer. '25% reduced mana cost of skills during effect' flask mod and 'Skills cost 30% life instead of mana' life mastery are needed on top to deal with the cost of all the triggered spells.

There are not that many good one-handed weapon mods for this build (it doesn't benefit a lot from extra cast speed) and since the To Dust jewels already give a bunch of increased minion damage, I decided to annoint Spiritual Aid and craft a wand with more increased minion damage. Better weapons are probably possible, but this one is easy to make in SSF once you have the fractured base. A 'worse' minion damage base wand would probably be better because of the lower int requirement.

Rather than investing in evasion and other ways to not get hit, I focussed on surviving when I do get hit. I do use evasion bases for spell suppression and the evasion mastery that gives more spell suppression, but other than that I have no real need for evasion.

The higher phys max hit comes from various phys taken as mods including the Taste of Hate flask and a 'while affected by purity of elements' Watcher's Eye, endurance charges from a charm, Soul of Gruthkul and the Progenesis unique flask which is, along with good To Dust jewels, the hardest part of this build to get in SSF. Against other damage types the 78% elemental and 83% chaos res, ruby, saphire and topaz flasks, again progenesis and 100% spell suppression chance seem sufficient. Increased flask effect mods are important to improve max hit.

Because I'm using a different shield, I need some other method to prevent life leech from ever being removed and I have settled on petrified blood as the best option. There aren't that many great aura options anyway (malevolence give increased skill effect duration which messes up the skeletons) so the oppertunity cost is not very high. The 'You count as on low life while at 55% of maximum life or below' mastery is effectively 10% more maximum life. Get it.

Perhaps the biggset downside of petrified blood is that it makes the sacrifice support gem much less effective as it scales on current life (POB does not seem to take low life status into account for that). Because of this and not having a urgent need for cast speed, there aren't that many great support gems for blade blast, so I crafted 30% more dot for socketed gems/+2 to level of socketed aoe skill gems gloves and put my blade blast in them as a 4L, leaving more sockets for all the triggered spells. With lvl 4 empower, a 6L for blade blast could be worth considering.

Agaisnt the temporal bubble rares I have a self cast forbidden rite with gmp. Until recently I would weapon swap to a higher duration summon skeletons, but for some reason the loop breaks if I try to swap now so I'm just using forbidden rite again to make sure I always keep leeching.



I think that's most of the important bits. I'll finish this post with the upgrades I'm still working on.

With a micro-distillery belt and dropping my topaz flask I could increase the effect of progenesis and taste of hate more to get even higher max hit. To compensate for the lack of topaz flask, I could get some mana reservation efficiency and use purity of lightning.

The rings, amulet and shield all aren't very rare uniques so it's not too hard to get some good corrupted implicits on them. I list a few useful ones:
amulet:
+1 curse limit. I would add enfeeble as the third curse
+1% max res
lvl 21 purity of elements to free up a socket
shield:
%increased life
%phys taken as
rings:
% increased global physical damage
lvl 23 despair. Self cast it against tough enemies and use the socket for something else.

Awakaned gems are another option for upgrades. Other than normal damage gems, awakened spell cascade and gmp can be used to create more lingering blades. Awakened fork could also be fun with ethereal knives.

If a socket is freed up in some way, having a level 20 cwdt blade blast is very nice for mapping. It will do a couple million dps without interfering too much with the self casts. You can also drop the self cast and only use a triggered blade blast. In that case I would not use a level 20 cwdt, but rather a level low enough that it triggers every 2 casts of bf/ek. It's important to have an added damage support in that case, ideally awakened added chaos damage, but non-awakened added chaos damage or sacrifice support are also fine. Spellblade support and a weapon suitable for that could also be interesting in that case. Another noteworthy option is supporting one of your curses, I would pick despair, with hex bloom so that the explosions from the profane bloom charm can keep chaining.

I'll leave it at that for now. Feel free to ask questions and any and all suggestions are welcome. I've tried out lots of things, but there's probably a lot I haven't considered yet

Hi HerpeDerp, I took a look at what I assume is your character (https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction/character/HerpeDerpeDerp/DerpFinder) and I see you don't use both RF and Annihilation's Approach like Jousis' version, how are you sustaining the self damage while there are no enemies nearby to poison? Is the self poison from Apep's Slumber enough to keep you alive?

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damon92 wrote:

Hi HerpeDerp, I took a look at what I assume is your character (https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction/character/HerpeDerpeDerp/DerpFinder) and I see you don't use both RF and Annihilation's Approach like Jousis' version, how are you sustaining the self damage while there are no enemies nearby to poison? Is the self poison from Apep's Slumber enough to keep you alive?

I used righteous fire in my weapon swap and combined with apep's self poison that was enough for me to stay alive

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HerpeDerpeDerp wrote:

I used righteous fire in my weapon swap and combined with apep's self poison that was enough for me to stay alive

Good to know! I can't wait to try this come next league.

I'd like to try either the original or HerpeDerpeDerp's most recent build in Standard. Are both still viable or do they need updates given the changes in 3.24 ?

Also anyone got a build with a MB they can post the PoB for. I have an MB I can use if this makes the build a little more robust.

Thanks !

Has any one tried the chaos dot regen for a RF build? as long as your chaos res is not higher than your fire it just turns off the downside of RF isn't that huge?

Hi,

Any leech calculation expert around here?

I'm trying to replicate the original loop with Mahuxotl shield, a leech flask and a Heartbound Loop.

I have my leech flask with 15% damage leech and 100% uptime.
I have a Heartbound Loop 20% quality
I have 0.2s skeleton duration

If I activate the flask, righteous fire and try to start the loop, it kinda works, it does loop but my life stays around 0.
It looks like I'm not 100% of the time leeching, and the RF regen (with Tainted pact) is bouncing my life (I see the total life switching between ~10 to ~60, but the RF never stop).
And if I try to activate it outside of the hideout, it is insta suicide.

If I try to calculate my supposed leech duration: (Hit Damage) * (% Leeched) / (2% of Max Life)

Hit damage: 420 - (420*0.08) = 386,4 (as for now I try without touching flames on, so I have only 8% redution from armor)

Duration: 386,4 * 0.15 / (4727*0.0.2) ~= 0,61

Which should be enough to be fully leeching between two skeleton loop.

I've tried different variation: 2 Heartbound loop, more life, less life, less armor, ... but result is the same.

Did I miss something?
Is my leech duration wrong?

I would really love to make this works, regardless of its actual viability.

You can see the pob here: https://pobb.in/qiafcjEGnOIh
(for now I'm just trying to make the RF regen works, no dps skill or poison reflection is yet added)