- Your tree is so terribly unoptimized if you're picking up dodge cluster
- I looked at your character its pretty much the raider tree but with templar start and you travel all the way down to dodge cluster. This is very far from optimal
How is it not optimal?
It's actually equivalent since both converge at same point on witch highway and path through same point by raider start, the only difference is starting nodes and ascendancy points. Even the dex is not wasted / is just 21 over level 21 bb requirement.
Yes, raider can grab some life + evasion, hiero can get ele damage, both can opt out for quicker exit.
Dodge makes perfect sense to survive on ultimatums and is known as most powerfull and efficient defense nodes on tree. I was grabbing supreme ego anyway, so actually grabbing glancing blows and shield nodes is 100% same point cost for me (17).
60/50 dodge with no flasks and 70/60 with does wonders.
That will exceed raider dodge in fact at cost of running omeyocan, which is a heavy investment but also allows you to run perma RF without flasks.
Only case where glancing blows makes sense is if you don't take agnostic and have high ES + corrupted soul, which is a viable option for hiero later on, but definitely not on league start compared to Omeyocan.
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-Your flask options are limited, ours aren't which allows us to dip into mid block, armour and evasion
You definitely shouldn't run any block flasks with acro on softcore as that is the very definition of "inefficient".
Armor gotten from flasks with acro is nothing short of amusing, hiero giggles in background with 4 perma end charges.
Block is also heavily penalized with acro, so no to rumi's.
Yes, you will have extra evasion from cloak and ranger starting nodes if you choose to path that way, not sure how is it related to flasks? You're not suggesting to run a jade flask i hope, most people need just enough to survive most ultimatums, not to not die on hardcore.
so are you going to link a pob? block flasks are perfectly justifiable. It pushes preventative layering on a build that uses agnostic, why would you not do that.
Low armour is amazing for shotguns and projeciles, armour isn't the same as PDR which is what endu charges are granting you. We run 3 endurance charges and the clarity version can run 3 permanent ones easily. It seems like you lack some knowledge of fundamental defensive layering.
Last edited by ChemistHCSSF on Apr 28, 2021, 5:45:00 PM
Tried fiddling around with a quick hiero tree, it's just less damage, less tankiness with more clunkiness. Brittleknee's version is better than whatever you're following tbh
You can import char yourself to PoB, there isn't really an evolution goal for BF/BB for me, so that's pretty much where it ends.
I just shared experience with hiero variation. It's a temp starter form for hiero which works just amazing and has very easy time leveling and mapping all the way to t16 and a8 conquerors, with many very high dps options afterwards, but on bf/bb itself i don't see much options for _drastically_ scaling dps by order of magnitudes on budget.
- Your tree is so terribly unoptimized if you're picking up dodge cluster
- I looked at your character its pretty much the raider tree but with templar start and you travel all the way down to dodge cluster. This is very far from optimal
How is it not optimal?
It's actually equivalent since both converge at same point on witch highway and path through same point by raider start, the only difference is starting nodes and ascendancy points. Even the dex is not wasted / is just 21 over level 21 bb requirement.
Yes, raider can grab some life + evasion, hiero can get ele damage, both can opt out for quicker exit.
Dodge makes perfect sense to survive on ultimatums and is known as most powerfull and efficient defense nodes on tree. I was grabbing supreme ego anyway, so actually grabbing glancing blows and shield nodes is 100% same point cost for me (17).
60/50 dodge with no flasks and 70/60 with does wonders.
That will exceed raider dodge in fact at cost of running omeyocan, which is a heavy investment but also allows you to run perma RF without flasks.
Only case where glancing blows makes sense is if you don't take agnostic and have high ES + corrupted soul, which is a viable option for hiero later on, but definitely not on league start compared to Omeyocan.
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-Your flask options are limited, ours aren't which allows us to dip into mid block, armour and evasion
You definitely shouldn't run any block flasks with acro on softcore as that is the very definition of "inefficient".
Armor gotten from flasks with acro is nothing short of amusing, hiero giggles in background with 4 perma end charges.
Block is also heavily penalized with acro, so no to rumi's.
Yes, you will have extra evasion from cloak and ranger starting nodes if you choose to path that way, not sure how is it related to flasks? You're not suggesting to run a jade flask i hope, most people need just enough to survive most ultimatums, not to not die on hardcore.
You aren't linking a PoB, so I'm just going to derail a few things here as to not have people getting confused.
1.) Tree aside, on yours alone there's multiple spots of inefficient pathing (top left int nodes is an example)
2.) Dodge does make perfect sense, that's why you play a raider :) we can run omneyocan's as well they're just not as good in general, raider doesn't need them to dodge cap with quartz and Vaal Grace.
3.) Go ahead and take off rumi's from one of my trees and tell me it isn't worth. The flask grants an absurd amount of ehp and with an of iron skin flask the max hit taken goes up exponentially as well. I'm not sure where you got acro doesn't want block or armour but you are so incredibly wrong when it can be achieved on flasks.
4.) Huge lol @ not wanting to run a jade of reflexes with avatar of the chase and wind dancer. it gives us over 15,000 evasion rating putting us at cap.
It seems you have a massive disconnect with what raider accomplishes through it's layers. We can push over 1.3m phys EHP alone with a 150k max hit taken. Gl doing the damage, achieving the tankiness or the clear speed of a raider on a Hiero.
Last edited by ChemistHCSSF on Apr 28, 2021, 6:18:18 PM
1.) Tree aside, on yours alone there's multiple spots of inefficient pathing (top left int nodes is an example)
They're for grabbing crit and staff crit nodes there after divesting of bf/bb ;)
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2.) Dodge does make perfect sense, that's why you play a raider :) we can run omneyocan's as well they're just not as good in general, raider doesn't need them to dodge cap with quartz and Vaal Grace.
You don't need to play raider to benefit from dodge, as i pointed out on my tree the cost of glancing blows block was exactly the same 17 points vs grabbing dodge clusters.
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It seems you have a massive disconnect with what raider accomplishes through it's layers. We can push over 1.3m phys EHP alone with a 150k max hit taken. Gl doing the damage, achieving the tankiness or the clear speed of a raider on a Hiero.
Actually that's the problem / dead end and why i did not pick this variation.
Surely you can stuff evasion andb block on top of dodge, but DPS is low for all that EHP and raider has nowhere to go basically because tree start does not favour a crit caster, which you'd want to be on softcore eventually, unless you have insane budget to scale ele overload variant to tens of millions of dps.
So raider is only carried by op bf/bb skill on top of op support that is archmage, but can't go high crit with other skills and dps ceiling is fairly limited.
Hey, just for yall info the biggest deeps upgrade once your map geared are awakened support gems, Awakened controlled D, ele focus, lightning res and increased area of effect(or intensify), all worth about 6-8 exalts total atm in std league.
Build is great, though theres a lot to learn and wouldnt recommend a newbie starting in hardcore with this, it only works its magic once you have a good grasps of all the mechanics and finally get the gear and notables skills going(Mind drinker>agnostic>supreme ego). Rotation on boss is conductivity>sigil>arcane surge then bfbb the boss, I two-shot 3rd phase eternal Izaro and eternal labs was a breeze at only 4100 HP(guides recommend 5k), because of the mana shield/fortify defensives and flame dash mobility.
REALLY fun to play for me. Nothing would bore me more than a minion build where you just run around and wait, this is VERY active build but cheap and effective when you play it well! Very rewarding to play.
Last edited by Andersonsan on Apr 28, 2021, 6:39:02 PM
1.) Tree aside, on yours alone there's multiple spots of inefficient pathing (top left int nodes is an example)
They're for grabbing crit and staff crit nodes there after divesting of bf/bb ;)
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2.) Dodge does make perfect sense, that's why you play a raider :) we can run omneyocan's as well they're just not as good in general, raider doesn't need them to dodge cap with quartz and Vaal Grace.
You don't need to play raider to benefit from dodge, as i pointed out on my tree the cost of glancing blows block was exactly the same 17 points vs grabbing dodge clusters.
"
It seems you have a massive disconnect with what raider accomplishes through it's layers. We can push over 1.3m phys EHP alone with a 150k max hit taken. Gl doing the damage, achieving the tankiness or the clear speed of a raider on a Hiero.
Actually that's the problem / dead end and why i did not pick this variation.
Surely you can stuff evasion andb block on top of dodge, but DPS is low for all that EHP and raider has nowhere to go basically because tree start does not favour a crit caster, which you'd want to be on softcore eventually, unless you have insane budget to scale ele overload variant to tens of millions of dps.
So raider is only carried by op bf/bb skill on top of op support that is archmage, but can't go high crit with other skills and dps ceiling is fairly limited.
Hiero walks away perfectly fine.
Crit on AM is major lawl, you scale it into the 100's of millions with a watchers eye and alt quality gems alone.
Didn't say that, raider abuses dodge the best because of wind dancer and avatar of the chase, dodge on a templar is hilariously bad. Explain how you eventually go into crit and clusters with that pathing. I'd love to know.
In what world do you think you have to be crit on an AM build abusing overlap? Really what aren't you putting together there? In mid budget range we're at over 19m dps at 30 blades. That's with 8-10 exalts invested or a few days on SSF ladder.
It's not about "stuffing" it's so easy to pick up those layers that there's no reason not to. You're just spewing uninformed garbage at this point.
The interesting part is, initial post: "Why jade" second post: "Ahcutally i KNEW THIS but the evasion cap and all the other layers felt TEW much for muh critspellcaster needs in sc trade." Why are you trying so hard to prove a point on a foundation of mud?
Last edited by ChemistHCSSF on Apr 28, 2021, 6:47:39 PM
