[3.16 - RETIRING BUILD] VD Brands: S-Tier Bosser, A-Tier Map! -- MURDERED BY GGG_INTERN SOMEWHERE--

Another high level DPS question we must ask is -

Phantasmal Desecrate + Enhance = 44% chance to spawn a Forgotten Corpse, which is 128k base health @ 83 (higher in Sirus/Maven etc). (Reddit user posted this and I was like, huh, never thought of Enhance.)

We have to investigate how this interferes with Flayer/Litho corpse generation and if it's worth the additional mana cost.

Here's the math:

Right now "base" corpse life @83 is 27100.

"Total" corpse life for our current method is (~1.5*206000 + (12-1.5)(27100)) = 584,000.

44% chance for Forgotten Corpse and none of our Flayers/Lithos is = 0.44 * 12 * 128,000 = 675,840... Jesus! Even without including any regular corpses..

+ Regular corpses = 0.56*12 * 27100 = 182,112 + 675,840 = 676k.

So even if NO Flayers or Lithos spawned, going Phantasmal Desecrate with Enhance (and you could put it in a Quality Cane of Kulemak which is at least not a trash roll anymore) - is 676/584 = 1.15x Corpse Explosion multiplier, potentially more with Spectres. (which mind you isn't a straight up 15% dps increase since the spell hits account for 20-35% of the damage typically.).

I ran Phanstasmals previous leagues anyway, but didn't think to scale it with Enhance. (It varies a bit since sometimes you do spawn corpses that have more than > 100% base health modifier)

I will begin trials immediately and see which support we can afford to drop. After all, we can simply move our Desecrate to a 5L on Cane/Body Armour and up the regular Inspiration to a Divergent to help with mana costs.

The research question is then - how does the % chance to spawn corpses interact with the Litho and Stoneskin Flayer Spectres?

Buy your stonks everyone!

What is the latest POB, i am confused a little :)

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primaeva wrote:

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falagar112 wrote:

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Cryotron9000 wrote:

DD shouldn't be doing more DPS than VD if all the corpses that are consumed hit the boss.

DD hits about twice as hard as VD, but it only explodes 5 corpses per cast (with Awakened Spell Cascase). VD explodes all 12 corpses you create per cast.

You also ramp Corpse Pact much slower, and can't reach as many stacks, because you are consuming fewer corpses in the same amount of time.

while this is true in theory, practice thought me that DD is killing bosses a lot faster :/

I think partially it is because VD has travel time, which is very noticable on say Sirus, where they try to chase him - while DD is simply sticking

This is likely a good conclusion. The beefier a boss, the less the ramp time matters, since the top-end DPS will be outpace a single target that can withstand >3-4 sec of our endgame DPS.

I think Star ran a DD version and another argument for it is that it simply is less laggy and in fact, looks mothafuckin' badass. The one drawback is that you lose some juicy offscreening ability from 60 balls.

It could be as simple as us running a gem swap - DD for big bosses and VD for mapping! Another point of flexibility in the build. :D

On top of this, the 45% chance for Detonate Dead to consume an additional corpse is BIG TIME DAMAGE for the build and easily beats all other helm enchants out there.

I'll try it today and see if the FPS gains are indeed that big. I wouldn't mind tossing out VD as the headliner if it simply allowed more people to play the build. I myself have had sound effects muted for leagues now, not the way I prefer it but I am left no choice.

Even at full ramp shouldn't VD still do more DPS than DD? DD does 2x as much corpse explosion damage as VD, but 12 corpses exploded by VD is more than 2x the 5 corpses exploded by DD.

The activation rate is the same, so I just don't see how the math works out...

With the helm enchant though, DD should end up doing more DPS on average, as it would explode 7.25 corpses on average per cast.

Edit: After doing some testing, I think I might be seeing the reason why DD might feel better even if the math doesn't work out. With VD, you are rarely going to be able to actually explode all 12 corpses per cast, even with Awakened Spell Cascade, because each of the individual cascades can only explode 3 corpses each. I tested this by standing around and casting Brand Recall; I usually only would explode 9 or 10 of the corpses. I made a dumb MSPaint drawing to show what I mean.

With DD, you are much more likely to be able to explode all 5 possible corpses per cast. In fact, I was able to explode 5 corpses every single time.

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primaeva wrote:

The research question is then - how does the % chance to spawn corpses interact with the Litho and Stoneskin Flayer Spectres?

In theory you'd imagine it'd be similar to adding a third specter into the mix... But with alt gems who knows how they might have coded a guaranteed spawn rate or messed with the base rates.

I look forward to hearing of someone else doing the counting there :p

As for attribution no need at all mate. It's all your information from the thread, just picked out the bits I paid special attention to without trade. Copy/paste, edit, rewrite, iterate, improve, reuse, recycle. Go nuts.

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Soulravel wrote:

When switching over to Leadership's price and Duskdawn, its fine to keep using Inpulsa's right?

With Leadership you no longer shock with your ascendency so lose the native pops. As long as you're ok with that, swap away.

You'd need to squeeze in Skitterbots and have the Skitterbot shocking for you to get them (a bit) back. I'm personally using Inpulsa and not squeezing in Skitterbots at the moment, noticeable loss in clear and associated safety in Scourge from it but absolutely viable.

I'd have way more fears about the cast speed with Duskdawn. Given the crit from the staff I'd be keen to give up some crit from the default tree to get some of that speed back. The moment the cast speed feels clunky the build loses so much, it can go from 10/10 to 5/10 real fast (pun intended).

[Somehow double posted making an edit. D'Oh]

What should i do in order to go more damage?

A new helm without the Vd consumes an additional corpse, but with the 30 more elemental damage

Go crit, ditch the dual wield setup (already have a staff 130% fire, 110% spell crit, 25% cast speed. juust not using it yet)

Get the annoint on the leaderships price for extra brands? (now capped at 3)

thanks in advance!

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TsuDhoNim wrote:

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klaymored wrote:

Any tips for SSF?

Have fun :D

Thank you for your input. Gotta respec some atlas points it seems :)

As far as the initial Arma/Cremo build, I'm assuming I should use something similar to the Imexile leveling guide from the OP's original post?

One other thing I thought of on VD vs DD:

For big bosses, because DD hits harder, it will get you larger magnitude ailments, or at least ramp you to the cap faster (if you were already reaching it with VD).

This could be quite significant because a large portion of your DPS can be dependent on how large your Scorches and Brittles are.

Please i need help.. there is my pob, what can i upgrade ? https://pastebin.com/mMjc3JZd

I know a Kulemak and leadership, but before it i doing some wrong? cause i have dificult to kill mobs at t10 maps.. and my explode dont show like the video..
Have you an video from this league with this build to show up ?

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Cryotron9000 wrote:

Even at full ramp shouldn't VD still do more DPS than DD? DD does 2x as much corpse explosion damage as VD, but 12 corpses exploded by VD is more than 2x the 5 corpses exploded by DD.

The activation rate is the same, so I just don't see how the math works out...

With the helm enchant though, DD should end up doing more DPS on average, as it would explode 7.25 corpses on average per cast.

Edit: After doing some testing, I think I might be seeing the reason why DD might feel better even if the math doesn't work out. With VD, you are rarely going to be able to actually explode all 12 corpses per cast, even with Awakened Spell Cascade, because each of the individual cascades can only explode 3 corpses each. I tested this by standing around and casting Brand Recall; I usually only would explode 9 or 10 of the corpses. I made a dumb MSPaint drawing to show what I mean.

With DD, you are much more likely to be able to explode all 5 possible corpses per cast. In fact, I was able to explode 5 corpses every single time.

Hmm yes, this is consistent with my HO findings, do you think theoretically an INCREASED AoE on Desecrate would actually improve DPS as such?

(I can't seem to kill stuff faster with DD, I think I need to run some white Minotaurs for a fair test.)