Does the "Chance to Avoid Elemental Ailments per Summoned Golem" in Elemancer Ascendancy node mean that we are immune to every ailment including freeze and stuff since we have a lot of Golems? Would it also prevent freeze from strongboxes if ever?
Yes, it does. With my 9 golems up, it is sitting at 315% Avoidance for Burn, Chill, Freeze, and Shock.
Hey guys, I'm considering switching to CIP because I'm stuck with the current build. My question is how tanky is the build and is the damage really that good? These two factors are important to me.
Tankiness is not the right way to think about it. No matter what you do with this and most builds, you will die in 1 hit. The goal is to kill monsters before they kill you, which means clear speed for maps and dps for bosses.
CIP trades significant clear speed for significant boss damage. By going CIP, you gain ~50% more boss damage. But you lose clear speed due to losing a lot of minion movement/attack speed from frenzy/wand, and you lose 1-button/key playstyle from convoking wand with trigger socketed spell. Losing clear speed means monsters stay alive longer, and you die more.
So if you are dying in maps, stick with the guide and look for ways to improve. If you are dying to bosses, then switching to CIP will help you there.
FWIW, CIP with a couple of exa in it does have a big buffer for taking damage- I've definitely eaten all sorts of garbage that I definitely didn't deserve to survive. Between 90 phys, divine flesh with 88 chaos res, and a super chonk VMS, it's pretty hard to instadie outside of like triple beyond delirium (didn't the recent patch just nerf delirium?). I think I've literally never died during VMS.
I agree that clear speed with CIP could be better on super tanky maps, but I've been using carrions for mapping and they can handle t16 delirium runs fine as long as long as I don't get dunked by some super beyond or something.
I'd vouch for CIP as a budget option as recently as a week ago, but I think people are catching onto how sick golems are and prices are reflecting that...
Last edited by Budewnpa on Apr 15, 2020, 4:45:29 AM
Maybe I'm missing something, but I've done quite a bit of testing and I'd like to at least challenge the assumptions on the multistrike/cooldown/slam side.
When I watch my golems, they are, sometimes, very clearly not doing the slam (where they use both hands at the same time to hit the ground and the ripples sort of come out) and doing what looks like "normal attacks" (where it looks more like they're throwing a baseball or punching with one hand).
I have a stone golem attack rate of 2.45 (1 / 2.45 = 0.408 s per attack) - PoB says 2.25 and I am mentally adding 0.20 for the onslaught from Ravenous Horde which I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get to come through in PoB. This is the golem attack rate that results after being enhanced by various passives, ravenous horde (and accompanying onslaught), and feeding frenzy.
According to PoB, I have a golem slam skill cooldown of 0.96s (with 7 Primordial Harmony jewels all with the maximum 45% golem skill cooldown reduction)
With multistrike, conventional wisdom would say that it takes 3 x 0.408 s = 1.224 s to finish one set of slam attacks. This is much higher than my skill cooldown, so there should never be a case where my golems are forced into their regular attack instead of their slam attack. I have put a lot of effort into making absolutely sure (hence only taking the perfect roll 45% golem skill cooldown reduction Harmony jewels) my cooldown is fast enough based on the comments in this thread.
However, I am seeing them "regular attack" quite often - assuming I am correct in that the "throwing a baseball" type animation is the regular attack and not part of the animation for the slam multistrike process.
Am I missing something?
Hmm, I noticed the same thing and decided to test this with 1 golem on Atoll's stationary boss.
The slam behavior is very inconsistent. Some times, there is no gap between slams. Sometimes 1-2 second gap, but most often a much longer gap where the golem will switch to normal attack for 3-5 seconds.
Thanks for confirming - really appreciate it. I also first noticed it when I was summoning my golems one at a time as I started a map and noticed my one golem sure seemed to be "regular attacking" a lot. For a while I thought I was crazy based on how everyone else in this thread has been talking about it but I triple checked my cooldowns and I'm not even running Redemption or the two minion attack speed nodes leading up to it so along with my perfect cooldown roll Harmony jewels I figured I should be safe.
In light of this finding, is there a chance that there's some interaction of slam with Multistrike that's not working properly perhaps, or maybe another configuration that ends up being better where Multistrike Support is replaced with Ruthless Support or something?
I'm fairly noob/casual so would welcome input on potential ways to optimize around this situation from people who are more experienced with builds than I am, maybe from OP or skyscan or someone?
The most important thing with Multistrike is that it locks golem AI into triple slams while the cooldown for slam is ticking.
If you don't run Multistrike, what will happen is that your golem will slam only once and then default attack for the rest of the slam cooldown period before it can slam again. Multistrike addresses this issue by locking golems into slamming a guaranteed two additional times. This minimizes the window for the golem AI to do something else (default attack or roll).
I agree with the observation that it won't outright eliminate other golem attacks as I've noticed myself quite a few random situations where golems prefer to default attack when slam is available to use. Golem AI is pretty funky and it seems not totally well understood by the community, or at least I haven't found a source that completely explains why golems do what they do.
However, it seems well-accepted across many guides/threads I've read that balancing attack speed and cooldowns around Multistrike will maximize the window for slam to be available for your stone golems to use. As to whether your golems actually choose to use slam when it's available depends on the quirks of their AI, which is probably not as perfect as we would like.
Last edited by scrambled777 on Apr 15, 2020, 6:41:01 AM
I tried mixing this build up a bit with skyscan's stone golem build (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2826004/page/1) to try and get the best from both worlds. To me it seems bamper1's build is a bit quicker, but skyscan's is tankier.
Trying to incorporate both I ended up with 3m slam dps, 110% movement speed, 6.2k hp, max physical reduction (without the brass dome, but with granite flask) and max ele/chaos res (88%)
Have the POB below:
https://pastebin.com/UHKZYDLD
Any comments are much appreciated - I will try the build out and see how it goes :)
The most important thing with Multistrike is that it locks golem AI into triple slams while the cooldown for slam is ticking.
If you don't run Multistrike, what will happen is that your golem will slam only once and then default attack for the rest of the slam cooldown period before it can slam again. Multistrike addresses this issue by locking golems into slamming a guaranteed two additional times. This minimizes the window for the golem AI to do something else (default attack or roll).
I agree with the observation that it won't outright eliminate other golem attacks as I've noticed myself quite a few random situations where golems prefer to default attack when slam is available to use. Golem AI is pretty funky and it seems not totally well understood by the community, or at least I haven't found a source that completely explains why golems do what they do.
However, it seems well-accepted across many guides/threads I've read that balancing attack speed and cooldowns around Multistrike will maximize the window for slam to be available for your stone golems to use. As to whether your golems actually choose to use slam when it's available depends on the quirks of their AI, which is probably not as perfect as we would like.
Yeah, but it seems golems choose not to slam very often. So any benefit around balancing around attack rate and cooldown is blown out of the water by golems simply choosing to not slam. The critical balance point between eminence and harmony is actually around added damage vs attack rate (NOT cooldown and attack rate).
Would love to hear from anyone else who has tested this. One thing I want to check out is if golems may be limited by some kind of mana pool.
FWIW, CIP with a couple of exa in it does have a big buffer for taking damage- I've definitely eaten all sorts of garbage that I definitely didn't deserve to survive. Between 90 phys, divine flesh with 88 chaos res, and a super chonk VMS, it's pretty hard to instadie outside of like triple beyond delirium (didn't the recent patch just nerf delirium?). I think I've literally never died during VMS.
I agree that clear speed with CIP could be better on super tanky maps, but I've been using carrions for mapping and they can handle t16 delirium runs fine as long as long as I don't get dunked by some super beyond or something.
I'd vouch for CIP as a budget option as recently as a week ago, but I think people are catching onto how sick golems are and prices are reflecting that...
I put victario's back on to boost clear speed. While it's not as nice as convoking wand, the speed boost is noticeable. According to POB, DPS should be higher overall for mapping thanks to power + frenzy charges, and slightly less (~2.5%) for bosses due to not having the power charge.
The most important thing with Multistrike is that it locks golem AI into triple slams while the cooldown for slam is ticking.
If you don't run Multistrike, what will happen is that your golem will slam only once and then default attack for the rest of the slam cooldown period before it can slam again. Multistrike addresses this issue by locking golems into slamming a guaranteed two additional times. This minimizes the window for the golem AI to do something else (default attack or roll).
I agree with the observation that it won't outright eliminate other golem attacks as I've noticed myself quite a few random situations where golems prefer to default attack when slam is available to use. Golem AI is pretty funky and it seems not totally well understood by the community, or at least I haven't found a source that completely explains why golems do what they do.
However, it seems well-accepted across many guides/threads I've read that balancing attack speed and cooldowns around Multistrike will maximize the window for slam to be available for your stone golems to use. As to whether your golems actually choose to use slam when it's available depends on the quirks of their AI, which is probably not as perfect as we would like.
Yeah, but it seems golems choose not to slam very often. So any benefit around balancing around attack rate and cooldown is blown out of the water by golems simply choosing to not slam. The critical balance point between eminence and harmony is actually around added damage vs attack rate (NOT cooldown and attack rate).
Would love to hear from anyone else who has tested this. One thing I want to check out is if golems may be limited by some kind of mana pool.
I'm with you - it seems like the slams are way fewer than some guides would imply and is likely a big DPS reducer overall (not that damage is bad!).
The mana idea was a really good one actually since I know some spectres have really limited mana pools. However, I tried my stone golem with blood magic support (removing impale support) and it still "regular attacks" a lot so I don't think that's the issue. It may be by design, a nerfed AI, or something else along those lines.
If that's the case, though, I wonder if it makes sense to improve DPS by rebalancing into 1-2 fewer Harmonies and 1-2 more Eminences...
Also, to those using a lightning golem along with stone and chaos - when is it better? Seems like some people think 8 stone + 1 chaos is optimal while others use 7 stone + 1 chaos + 1 lightning.
Love this build but I found the CIP variant much tankier and even provided me more damage.
I spent quite a bit of time crafting god-tier Convoking Wands and +1 Body Armours but nothing seemed to beat 2x CIP and a Brass Dome. I'm also rocking the Divine Flesh keystone with 86% Chaos Res.
Here's my current POB: https://pastebin.com/wkKuJTXF
My helmet is next to be upgraded as it's definitely my weakest link.
How is the survivability compared to wand version ?
And the damage ?
how are you managing not having trigger spells on wand ?
