In response to the quick discussion about PvP from ExileCon

I'm not sure how to make HLD feel accessible. The amount of gear variations that are legacy and grant such an insane boost to stats. Even the ones that aren't legacy but are some kind of temporary mirror tier.

We tried very hard in eHLD to create a practical limitation and remove things from cost, but it would continue to push certain archetypes that simply fit within budget power.

I haven't done LLD or HLD since what, 3.3, so ya all this synth gear existing would piss me off trying to gear in a perm league

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ProjectPTStuff wrote:

I'm not sure how to make HLD feel accessible. The amount of gear variations that are legacy and grant such an insane boost to stats. Even the ones that aren't legacy but are some kind of temporary mirror tier.

We tried very hard in eHLD to create a practical limitation and remove things from cost, but it would continue to push certain archetypes that simply fit within budget power.

I haven't done LLD or HLD since what, 3.3, so ya all this synth gear existing would piss me off trying to gear in a perm league

You cant make a game as deep as this accessible like an FPS or Rocket League unless you severely neuter the depth of it. In hindsight I think the ethical rules were a bad idea and only made the game too simple. We basically killed the depth of the game and were left only with the shitty game play of standing still and right clicking until someone dies.

Poe pvp mostly caters to people with at least mild autism and severe obsession on trying to make sense out of complex systems. On top of that when they get beaten by some overpowered crap they need to get annoyed enough to start thinking of a way to beat it. Its a fairly niche crowd. Most people just say fuck this shit and install Fortnite when they get hammered by something.

Also yeah it doesn't help you need a lot of currency to stand a chance against the standard chars that have been finetuned for years. Then again beating at least one of those fuckers should be an incentive to getting into pvp in the first place. Every temp league someone tends to make a char that challenges the std chars. Legacy stuff is overrated.

I can agree with your earlier post where PvP is not as much about the skill so much the build that you bring to the match. In terms of the depth though I don't know if it really has that to a meaningful degree. But even if we just assumed that it did, clearly PvP isn't working at it's current state.


One of the underrated advantages of the eHLD system was that if veteran players wanted new players to invest into something new, it needed them to also be willing to invest as their legacy builds were often not allowed.

Someone mentioned earlier that it was a controversial rule, but the more I think about it the more any source of additional projectiles being banned is kinda neat.

Regardless of the system, we have a saturation problem, and without a saturated format we dont' have a sincere opportunity to see counter plays and players being clever. But if a format doesn't encourage people to try, it has already died.

I tried to put a lot of effort in making something accessible, not because I thought it would be the ideal format, but I needed players having the ability to try, without feeling they can't compete. Once a PvP population is saturated then the community can find a more long term competative enviroment.

That being said, we ran into a new issue, since incursion leagues started changing. There wasn't just overpowered unique items we could ban. They've moved to a design where every league has insane time sink crafting that has never been seen before. And this was a problem in both the eLLD and eHLD.


PoE PvP will always be niche, and expecting something else is a bit naive. But there has to be some degree of access as well as an ability to react within a match.

How we get there, and what tools PoE2 gives us to get there becomes the question.

Do we want to use this time before 2.0 to build a scene? and what roadmap can we use to get attention. Not trying to build a format exactly, but just get peopel to try.


The worst part of PoE PvP is always seeing people want to pvp, making comments and trying to get in, but there is simply nothing for them. And it has only gotten worse. We have no support but we also have a community of 20 people who want different things, and everytime someone pushes for something, the ones who find something that doesn't line up with their needs, they'll dismiss it entirely.

Like I said earlier, all we really need is a ladder and a queue that has players. Limit the amount of queues and possibly limit the active time of the queue if necessary. Communicate this in the game client to players. This should be very easy to do and requires very little from GGG.

In time this will bring a lot of players to pvp. Maybe with enough players there might be some actual regular balance changes.

I'm playing Diablo 4 right now and their pvp is awesome!

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Castablanca wrote:

- Take for example, Johnson’s howa lightning striker. Incredible success for melee. With few more tweaks, can even take down many miners.
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I suppose it s a tank melee abusing ancestral call But I wonder how is that efficient in 1 vs 1 when pebbles can stop any LS projectiles.

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ProjectPTStuff wrote:

Someone mentioned earlier that it was a controversial rule, but the more I think about it the more any source of additional projectiles being banned is kinda neat.

3 projectile spread max for ranged should be a norm for a better balanced pvp as well as a nerf on AOE radius on all skills in general. Some melee skills having fulls screen aoe radius is pretty stupid.


Visually to follow a pvp event it would make things better not only for balance but also to avoid clusterfuck of effects everywhere.

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lolozori wrote:

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Castablanca wrote:

- Take for example, Johnson’s howa lightning striker. Incredible success for melee. With few more tweaks, can even take down many miners.
-

I suppose it s a tank melee abusing ancestral call But I wonder how is that efficient in 1 vs 1 when pebbles can stop any LS projectiles.

I don’t consider ancestral call that abusive. It’s only a 2x shotgun, and actually more like 1.75 given the damage penalty on the projectile. Pebbles were not a problem for johnson lol. He had by far max mobility, good positioning, almost 25k es, and serious burst with point blank. Like i said, if he adopts wicked ward, game over.