[3.21] 🌿Ultimate Claw Poison Pathfinder - Untouchable Viper - Molten Strike update by FEL

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indigoBot wrote:

Well, there goes a good chunk of our damage, gone with the wind.

However, I noticed something interesting in manifesto, from nerfs to poison sextant:

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Note to partially compensate as we believe self-Poison is an interesting playstyle, we have added a new Unique item that retains the Damage and Movement Speed per Poison stats. However these stats will now be capped at a specific value.

Sextant selfpoison gave 12% increased damage per poison, which resulted in 1200% increased damage on 100 poisons, even if it is capped at 1/4th of that, it should still be awesome.

We will have to see what slot that new item takes, but it could potentially be enough to kinda compensate for the nerf, taking that new item slot + the golden rule jewel might be viable for boosting dps. However it comes with downside of getting unaffected by poison mod somewhere.
According to some people we need 150-200% multi to compensate, never gonna happen on a single mod or local poison from elder, but hunter's mods could be tempting.

I dont think the build is dead, but at first glance it hurts :(

Curious about patch notes :)

How do people get 150~200% this number?
From my estimate, 70~140% DoT multiplier could fully cover the elder mod

multi to compensate = (100 + DoT multi in build) * 0.6(elder mod) / 1.3(pathfinder)
Assume a league start scenario, no DoT multi on gear and only 30% from passives, if new elder mod give 60% DoT multi, damage would not change at all.

Guess the main reason why Thorstein is so pissed is that this build doesn´t get any benefits.

Deleting the bleed mod was justified for 3 simple reasons:
- Bleed was in a better position than Poison anyway
- Bleed gets, at least following the Manifesto, further Clusters on the Passive Tree, making it possible to grab more damage
- Bleed did scale better with additional phys anyway.

From a design standpoint getting rid of that mod is kinda understandeable as it made the items pretty 100/0 - if you don´t have that mod your weapon can´t be used. This makes a swap to some elder-weapons easier as we now have a wider range of mods that can roll which supposedly can be used. But - at least based on the Manifesto Information - Bleed comes out better here than poison. My comment on hitting Sirus for 5min was of course exxagerated, but I´ve put 750ex in this char and barely scratched 40mio bossing dps. If I lose the elder mod i´ll drop down to 23mio (of course not taking into consideration any other mod I can get). This is in my humble opinion just not justifyable if you have close to perfect and BiS-Gear.

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daniel23915600 wrote:

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indigoBot wrote:

Well, there goes a good chunk of our damage, gone with the wind.

However, I noticed something interesting in manifesto, from nerfs to poison sextant:

"

Note to partially compensate as we believe self-Poison is an interesting playstyle, we have added a new Unique item that retains the Damage and Movement Speed per Poison stats. However these stats will now be capped at a specific value.

Sextant selfpoison gave 12% increased damage per poison, which resulted in 1200% increased damage on 100 poisons, even if it is capped at 1/4th of that, it should still be awesome.

We will have to see what slot that new item takes, but it could potentially be enough to kinda compensate for the nerf, taking that new item slot + the golden rule jewel might be viable for boosting dps. However it comes with downside of getting unaffected by poison mod somewhere.
According to some people we need 150-200% multi to compensate, never gonna happen on a single mod or local poison from elder, but hunter's mods could be tempting.

I dont think the build is dead, but at first glance it hurts :(

Curious about patch notes :)

How do people get 150~200% this number?
From my estimate, 70~140% DoT multiplier could fully cover the elder mod

multi to compensate = (100 + DoT multi in build) * 0.6(elder mod) / 1.3(pathfinder)
Assume a league start scenario, no DoT multi on gear and only 30% from passives, if new elder mod give 60% DoT multi, damage would not change at all.

Well most simple way of testing it is to remove the mod from claws and replace it with chaos dot multi mod then play with numbers until similar dps is shown. At least that's how I did it just to verify the rough ballpark of nerf and reddit comments on those numbers.

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Vennto wrote:

This is in my humble opinion just not justifyable if you have close to perfect and BiS-Gear.

Agree.. If we can afford to invest stupid amounts of currency, we should expect atleast some stupid amount of dps to match it. It seems like ps/vs got caught for no reason in the crossfire of nerfing.

I really hope this build is not dead now, it was so fun/good in nearly all content.

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I really hope this build is not dead now, it was so fun/good in nearly all content.

It´s not dead. With the nerf to fractured fossils in terms of map-crafting it most likely be not worth to roll 100% deli-maps as a solo player anymore and for t16 this build is totally fine, you don´t need more than 8mio dps to clear all bosses and maps on a comfortable speed and the tankiness of the transendent version is untouched. Especially for people that don´t make hundrets of exalts I expect this to be still a viable option, but I won´t play it again as the scaling is just not that interesting anymore.

The thing about the build is how it's developing it's power.

The power rises very slowly all the way to the 90's. That's where you are most likely to have big power spike by acquiring good crafted claws.
It needed levels and gear to feel like something good. By removing Elder mod it will remain in the meh stage.

Ill wait patch notes to see all changes. There's maybe something else new that would interact with Elder mod in too powerful way so they removed it. Maybe there's something to compensate with.

We'll see.

I'm so pissed off about this nerf. I love this build. I wait for patch notes too. If something more will be nerf then I need to change build in this league... But I don't want to :(

I was sooo hype to finally play a poison claw build... I've planned a while for this, even made my own notes for levelling and whatnot.

But since I play only 1 build for the entire league and I want to be able to take it all the way to the finish line and taking all the buzz and the negativity from the past few pages, I should probably start looking for something else....

Too bad they RIP'ed a build that wasn't very popular anyway

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I was sooo hype to finally play a poison claw build... I've planned a while for this, even made my own notes for levelling and whatnot.

But since I play only 1 build for the entire league and I want to be able to take it all the way to the finish line and taking all the buzz and the negativity from the past few pages, I should probably start looking for something else....

Too bad they RIP'ed a build that wasn't very popular anyway

As mentioned several times now, you can still do that. It just won´t feel that strong like it did this season probably, then again without harvest you won´t be reaching this amount of power anyway. We still have to wait for the patch nodes and that ominous mechanic for self-poison.

In terms of league-starters this is probably still one of the top-tier-starters that flys totally under the radar as with wasps nest you simply push instantly to red maps. The transition into the first pair of elder claws might be harder now, true - we have to see how they compensate that, when Patch Nodes drop I will have a look into those new mods and we will figure out how hard the nerf actually will be.

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Cry0nicS wrote:

I was sooo hype to finally play a poison claw build... I've planned a while for this, even made my own notes for levelling and whatnot.

But since I play only 1 build for the entire league and I want to be able to take it all the way to the finish line and taking all the buzz and the negativity from the past few pages, I should probably start looking for something else....

Too bad they RIP'ed a build that wasn't very popular anyway

I'm in the same boat. I've never really gave a posion build a proper shot and I wanted to start with this build as a league starter in SSF. I was looking forward to the challenge of getting this build to endgame, crafting gear, getting core uniques in place etc.

Now with the removal of elder poison mod I'm scared to give it a try, I feel it might be too big nerf for SSF considering Wasp Nests aren't guaranteed to drop either if I'm unlucky. I hope patch notes reveal some boost in other areas for this build.