[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Maaster wrote:

Kelvynn, you think this build is still viable with the mana cost changes? Skill triggered by CwC should infer mana costs now...

Maybe a self-cast version would be better? Or is that too shitty overall? :/

If I remember well, seflcasting WI used to cost 140 Mana and thats before the massive mana multiplier increase, now add CWC...

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Firestrike9 wrote:

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Maaster wrote:

Kelvynn, you think this build is still viable with the mana cost changes? Skill triggered by CwC should infer mana costs now...

Maybe a self-cast version would be better? Or is that too shitty overall? :/

If I remember well, seflcasting WI used to cost 140 Mana and thats before the massive mana multiplier increase, now add CWC...

Yeah Im still trying to kinda make it work since I really wanna play it again :(

but guess Ill need to find another build

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archwerewolf wrote:

Kelvynn gona play scion not witch?)

I don't know yet. I was going to think about it after seeing the patch notes and decide based on the usual small changes and nuances. But nothing is SMALL about the changes in this one LOL!

Let's figure out how the game even works in 3.15 first.

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ichbinwerichbi wrote:

The good news Kelvyn is back.
The bad news they changed the game i loved to play since closed beta. 2 leagues ago i was first time able to kill sirius. Elder and shaper was 4 leagues bevor and maven i never killed. This league was the badest i ever played first i played a bladestorm build what wasnt that fun but worked ok. Then i tried last night icestorm in std with 87 k dmg in hide and 19 k es. Also with this numbers i cant kill maven.
I know i am not good enought in this game, but have not so much time to play.

With these changes, Maven is going to be a bitch for everybody, not just Icestorm. Then again, she was totally not worth farming back in 3.13. Her loot was worthless. Dunno, maybe since then people found more use for it?

I wouldn't worry about Maven for now. As long as we can make the build work for mapping and the new league mechanic - which seems to be another one of those that reward being tanky while doing some AoE damage, i.e. should be good for Icestorm.

@Kelvynn have you ever tried WI traps or mines? Trap icestorm might be good with a new buffs to trappers overall. It's definetely not gonna be as smooth as the CWC cyclone, but damage-wise it might be really good.

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Maaster wrote:

Kelvynn, you think this build is still viable with the mana cost changes? Skill triggered by CwC should infer mana costs now...

Maybe a self-cast version would be better? Or is that too shitty overall? :/

I still don't see any clear confirmation of CwC costing mana. The line from ITEM BALANCE:
"Modifiers on items that Trigger a Skill now have a 100% Cost and Reservation Multiplier, unless stated otherwise."

- that's clearly about item MODS that trigger skills, like "Trigger XXX on hit", etc. So that has nothing to do with The Whispering Ice and Icestorm.

CwC and Awakened CwC are present in the Support Gem Balance section, but the only changes are the generic damage nerfs similar to other gems.

I would definitely like to know if Cyclone - CwC - Icestorm is going to cost 24 mana or just 2 like before.

Self-casting is going to be terrible for sure. Apart from costing probably 200 mana, stopping to cast Icestorm (with the base 0.75 sec cast time) is not good.

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Wh1plash wrote:

@Kelvynn have you ever tried WI traps or mines? Trap icestorm might be good with a new buffs to trappers overall. It's definetely not gonna be as smooth as the CWC cyclone, but damage-wise it might be really good.

I never tried that myself. Somebody was going to try Icestorm Trickster or Saboteur a couple of leagues ago, but I haven't heard back from them.

Myself, I haven't played an endgame miner in years. Last one was like 3 years ago when I wanted to farm HoGM for the 1/90 mirror card. That was before some big rework of the traps/mines. No idea how that all works these days. It's a completely different play style for sure.

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Kelvynn wrote:

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Maaster wrote:

Kelvynn, you think this build is still viable with the mana cost changes? Skill triggered by CwC should infer mana costs now...

Maybe a self-cast version would be better? Or is that too shitty overall? :/

I still don't see any clear confirmation of CwC costing mana. The line from ITEM BALANCE:
"Modifiers on items that Trigger a Skill now have a 100% Cost and Reservation Multiplier, unless stated otherwise."

- that's clearly about item MODS that trigger skills, like "Trigger XXX on hit", etc. So that has nothing to do with The Whispering Ice and Icestorm.

CwC and Awakened CwC are present in the Support Gem Balance section, but the only changes are the generic damage nerfs similar to other gems.

I would definitely like to know if Cyclone - CwC - Icestorm is going to cost 24 mana or just 2 like before.

Self-casting is going to be terrible for sure. Apart from costing probably 200 mana, stopping to cast Icestorm (with the base 0.75 sec cast time) is not good.

Yeah I was wondering the same, but in the stream they mentioned that all triggers infer mana costs now. I dont think theres much hope here.

If it does need 24mana, is there any hope left for this build?

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Kelvynn wrote:

I still don't see any clear confirmation of CwC costing mana. The line from ITEM BALANCE:
"Modifiers on items that Trigger a Skill now have a 100% Cost and Reservation Multiplier, unless stated otherwise."

- that's clearly about item MODS that trigger skills, like "Trigger XXX on hit", etc. So that has nothing to do with The Whispering Ice and Icestorm.

CwC and Awakened CwC are present in the Support Gem Balance section, but the only changes are the generic damage nerfs similar to other gems.

I would definitely like to know if Cyclone - CwC - Icestorm is going to cost 24 mana or just 2 like before.

Self-casting is going to be terrible for sure. Apart from costing probably 200 mana, stopping to cast Icestorm (with the base 0.75 sec cast time) is not good.

Found it. Was said in the livestream (I guess) but also in the developement manifesto under Trigger Effect Costs: "In 3.15, triggering skills through support gems will require paying their mana cost."

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3147157

Any triggered skill will now cost mana. So far the only exception is Mjölner which now specifically says "no cost".

I recently refurbished a lvl 93 Templar I had in Standard and respecced it into a Hierophant and finetuned it into somewhat decent numbers and tested Archmage + self cast. It did work out, kind of - bossing taking too long time unfortunately.

Now archmage got nerfed from behind and beyond. But it is a way to actually use mana cost to your benefit. Hierophant got stolen of its ailment immunity - but speccing into anointed flesh may still be a good way to get up to 100% reduced effect for ele ailments.

I do not believe the base dmg increase is enough at all. The skill became too clunky in 3.13. This is the main reason selfcast feels so bad (or arcanist brand for that matter) - CwC felt better because you could cast continously.

The mana cost is gonna be painful for sure. Archmage or no - imo no matter which build variant will work best from now on I stand in that Icestorm still needs a revamp of how the skill hits. It needs faster hits and more hits - a tiny bit more dmg right now is just not enough.

EDIT: I may have to clarify that you can actually use archmage as a support for triggered skills now. So it would work to use Cyclone+CwC+Archmage for Icestorm.