[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

Don't worry too much about it, I will play it anyway and see what comes :)
Will try to rush to maps as quickly as possible as well and try to grind enough currency to afford the required uniques just hope the fang won't be 5ex for the first month in the league ;)

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YarrCahAdhir wrote:

Don't worry too much about it, I will play it anyway and see what comes :)
Will try to rush to maps as quickly as possible as well and try to grind enough currency to afford the required uniques just hope the fang won't be 5ex for the first month in the league ;)

Don't worry, I'm sure it won't be ;) I've played this build for around 5 leagues in a row now, all except one as league starter, and it's usually around 1-2ex in the first few days, and goes down to around 60c max after a week ^^

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YarrCahAdhir wrote:

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Vatinas wrote:

Everything I just said is basically me imagining what it would be like :p

Appreciate the honesty! ;D

I admit, I got spoiled with legion (started with ED/C) and Delirium (started SB Inq and made herald stacker my 2nd toon) but I know there are not many builds that can handle both efficiently without several dozens/hundred exalts which with a lower density of mobs (like Harvest) will be impossible for me to make ;)

I'm impressed with the tankyness shown and will 100% play it (for better or worse) and asked about the Delirium mod since it will be fairly expensive to run but a guaranteed source of cluster jewels and splinters if the build can handle it OK.

So hope to hear from someone who run them regularly to find out :)

Not sure if I qualify as "regularly" but I did run all of the ones that I found in league. To be honest I never made it to the boss, but basically cause I don't do the style of "mirror and run" I go killing the mobs and, since I didn't play a lot, I had to get used to the char (first time playing this build). But I'm possitive that running a little more and not stoping cause OCD that I need to kill that yellow one, you can make it in time to kill the map boss under delirium. I got lot of cluster jewels (ironically not the ones for the build :P) and a decent stack of splinters (even without killing the boss).

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Kemmotar1 wrote:

Not sure if I qualify as "regularly" but I did run all of the ones that I found in league. To be honest I never made it to the boss, but basically cause I don't do the style of "mirror and run" I go killing the mobs and, since I didn't play a lot, I had to get used to the char (first time playing this build). But I'm possitive that running a little more and not stoping cause OCD that I need to kill that yellow one, you can make it in time to kill the map boss under delirium. I got lot of cluster jewels (ironically not the ones for the build :P) and a decent stack of splinters (even without killing the boss).

Alright, that's good to hear! That means that by focusing on it it should be reliably doable (should be, I know we're still speculating). Thanks a lot for the input! ;)

Thank you for the guide!

I would like to try this build in hardcore this league. I see it is already extremely tanky, but is there anything you could change to increase tankiness (and by default lower damage)?

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Kemmotar1 wrote:

Not sure if I qualify as "regularly"[...]

Thanks, sounds like it should be alright, probably better than the icestorm I mostly played the previous league :)

I've done 20+ Simulacrums with this build in Harvest and it's pretty good, I've died only 2-3 times and that's because of Kosis's slam with 2x extra elemental dmg mods + elemental weakness but without those reappy mods I've managed to do wave 20 with both bosses face tanking both of them at the same time with no problem.

I also tried the full delirium fractured and juiced up maps with sextants and all that and I only died once because my PC couldn't handle 6 beyond bosses at a time. =))

The block nerf will for sure be a problem with my play style because I like to juice up my maps a lot but we will see what else we can do after Heist starts.

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ezarurazvan wrote:

I've done 20+ Simulacrums with this build in Harvest and it's pretty good[...]

Great to hear that, many thanks :)

BTW - the POB fork has been updated with the new skill tree.

Thanks for the build it looks great, I'm gonna league start with it.

Regarding how well it will do on delirium, fortune favors the brave seems to be really good value this league, so you can run it a few times until you get delirium in order to test it

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Vatinas wrote:

* Punishment

- Now causes cursed enemies to take 50% increased damage while on Low Life at gem level 1, up to 88% increased damage at gem level 20.
- Now causes cursed enemies you hit to be Debilitated for 2 seconds.
- Now causes 10% of Overkill damage from killing blows against cursed enemies to be reflected to other enemies as physical damage.

That's another curse that looks really interesting. Corpse explosion for faster and more satisfying clear, debilitated enemies (they deal less damage), and a lot more damage against low life enemies; which, on top of increasing our average DPS, will be really strong versus end game bosses, who tend to become more powerful near their end or in their last phase (e.g. Sirus, Uber Elder, Izaro), by allowing us to quickly burst their most dangerous phase.

The issue is, we need to find a way to apply the curse. It can't be obtained like Vulnerability, on gloves, so we would need to find another way. Curse on hit on something? Cyclone, but we would need to give up two sockets? a minion, somehow? A spectre that casts it?... Feel free to share your ideas, I'm always open to them :)

Personally I don't see much use for punishment considering what we would have to lose to practically use it. I cannot find any unique or corruption to apply it, and no spectres cast it, therefore the only option is to use curse on hit support, which means we are losing fortify and maim, assuming culling strike is needed, to get a curse which is probably not much better than vulnerability from glove corruption, as the damage increase only applies at low life, and bleed has to be gained from somewhere else, or bloodlust would have to be dropped, causing an overall dps loss. As well, I am not sure how culling strike would work with it, as if it works like herald of ash, the culling strike from cyclone will not cause explosions. Some of these problems could be solved using gloves with culling strike and/or chance to bleed support, freeing up support gems, or an awakened curse on hit could be used to apply both vulnerability and punishment, but I think these do not make sense, as they increase the cost for a potential clearspeed increase, which may not be great because of culling strike and many small hits from spiders.

However, with whispers of doom being moved next to Chaos innoculation, if we could get 3 free skill points punishment could be used as a self cast curse in addition to vulnerability on hit from gloves to increase dps against the final phases of bosses. This would probably only be a good choice on a tree close to 100, as punishment does nothing before the boss reaches 35%, and we cull at 10%, making it only relevant for 25% of a boss, as well as self casting during clear would probably slow the build down.

That is just my view on the curse, there are definitely other ways to try to solve the problem, an idea that may have merit is an arcanist brand setup, if anyone else wants to look into it :)

EDIT: After thinking about it more, I have realised that using an instant cast spell such as vortex or frostblink could be a good solution to apply punishment, as they can be cast while not interrupting cyclone. This will require a 3 link setup, but it may be worth it if the explosions from punishment deal a good amount of damage. This could make whispers of doom a good pickup so we can use both vulnerability and punishment. I may try a setup like this in league before I get a vuln on hit Shaper's touch