[3.9] Physical Conversion Bowyer | Wander [TS/LA/IS + Barrage] [KB + Power Siphon] [All Content]

"

Escalune wrote:

Spoiler

I'd like to focus on farming Uber Elder safely/reliably, mapping, and Delve between 250-300. I tried using a +2 Barrage Devoto's Devotion and it does feel more comfortable with the lower KB mana cost (the movement speed and chaos resistance is also appreciated). I did notice that KB sometimes doesn't 1-shot rares without the 5th and 6th support links from Tempest's Binding. And completely agree about Blood Rage with VP.

Here is my pastebin link (https://pastebin.com/aF3wHiub). I attempted to make a placeholder jewel for Lethal Pride's effects, though I'm not sure I did it correctly. My philosophy is similar to yours in that I would prefer to prioritize additional defenses/QoL once my DPS is sufficient and I think I'm there. I'm not sure on the best way to make that trade-off though.

Appreciate your review and thoughts.

Hey sorry for the late reply, been pretty busy and didn't have any time to thoroughly look at your POB til now.

Yeah GGG's buff to magic/rare mobs was pretty ridiculous. There were a few people who played ele wanders prior to 3.7, tried out phys wanding this patch and complained that phys wanders had way lower dps b/c they weren't able to one-shot rares. This is extremely misleading b/c GGG effectively doubled rare monsters' life pool, which made it extremely hard to one shot with either wander type unless you had mirror-tier dps or a 5+link setup.

There are several conditions that'll need to be changed to better reflect your real dps in T16+ encounters. Firstly, you should set "Is the enemy a boss" to shaper/guardian as this will factor in the high resists that those bosses have. You should also set Projectile travel distance to 10 or less to factor in Point Blank's dps boost. "Enemy is shocked" should also be removed as POB's shock calculation is very outdated. Shock depends on how much damage you deal as a percentage of the boss's life. Because this build deals mostly cold damage + barrage has very low damage per hit + shaper/uber elder has a large life pool (18mil), it's pretty much impossible to shock those bosses. Even a pure lightning stacking ele wander will get only a few % extra damage from shock. POB assumes shock gives 50% more damage which was the case a long time ago but not anymore. Lastly, the conditions "always on full energy shield" + "leeching energy shield" are mutually exclusive. You can't be under the effect of both at the same time. If blood rage is active, you are always leeching energy shield, but never at full ES. This is the desired effect as Energy Leech gem provides more dps when you're leeching and less dps when you're at full ES.

I've also removed Cinderswallow Urn for practical purposes, as you'll definitely need a life flask like Blood of the Karui for Uber Elder. This means onslaught will also need to be unchecked

Taking all this into account your shaper dps will fluctuate between ~3.89m to ~5.39m depending on the amount of frenzy/power charges active.

Uber Elder will be very much doable with this level of dps, especially with a legacy TOH + over 5.1k life but you'll need to play the mechanics of the fight and it may be a bit tricky at first when you're getting used to the playstyle (or not, since idk your skill level/experience). The uber elder video I posted from 3.6 had ~2.8m shaper dps and no legacy TOH + no new mechanics like Steelskin/Fortify/shield charge, so it should be much easier now.

As for the fight itself, I'd advise using a spare diamond flask of order (120% crit) that way you still have the significant crit chance buff from your Cinderswallow. You'll also probably want a rare belt. It shouldn't be too hard to find one since all it would require is high life + strength + one open prefix for %flask effect to be better than HH (you'll also need a spare rare non-abyss + abyss jewel). Even if those 2 jewels had no damage mods, you'd still have an extra ~250 life which is a lot (especially when scaled up w/TOH + Fortify). I'd also suggest using Tempests's Binding over Devoto's for the fight as your movespeed will be good enough to dodge all attacks with ease, and the extra 20% movespeed from Devoto's won't help you when uber elder drastically reduces your action speed + there's almost no chaos damage in the fight). With the belt + conqueror's potency swap + tempest's binding you should be able to have ~5.5k+ life during the fight which is more than enough to survive everything aside from a slam one-shot.

I see no issue with your tree pathing, although I'd recommend replacing fervour (+1 frenzy) with the 2 remaining damage nodes in "Command of the Elements" cluster instead. It's only 27k less dps but the damage from that cluster applies in all situations. +1 frenzy won't be up for a good part of the uber elder/shaper/elder guardians/some shaper guardians fight, so realistically the 2 nodes give more dps than +1 frenzy.

Another thing to consider is that you're spending 2 points to take Vitality Void which increases your life recovery by only ~300/second. A single elder ring LGOH mod will provide ~900/second. This means if you had an elder ring + removed Vitality Void, you'd gain 2 passive points + still have 600 more life recovery per second. I'd be dishonest though if I say you'd gain more dps + life recovery by switching to elder rings. You'd be giving up a prefix slot for LGOH + probably have to use a diamond base instead of opal. The 2 extra points from removing Vitality Void would nearly offset this dps loss though.

I think at this point, increasing life recovery rate is more beneficial than increasing your life pool. High life recovery rate will enable you to facetank in more situations + for longer periods of time. In a practical sense this is effectively raising your real dps, as you spend less time kiting around and more time dealing damage. Right now your life recovery is ~2.3k, which is not bad, but we can imagine a lot of situations where bosses will be dealing more than 2.3k damage to you per second. Using 2x LGOH rings would bring your recovery rate to ~4k/second. This would eliminate the need for life flasks in a lot of situations. Of course you prefer assmark on hit from one of your rings, but I think it's worth thinking about replacing your other ring with an elder one. You'd gain 600-900 life recovery/second with the tradeoff being a little less damage.

If you have any other questions/concerns lmk.

"

IkarusRDS wrote:

Hello

I finally got to Uber Elder, but I'm having trouble defeating him and I would like some tips.

I thought of changing the auras / skill tree to something more defensive, I feel like I'm doing a good deal of damage, but I take onehit from Shaper's balls, as soon as I dodge them sooner or later I end up taking a scrape ...

My PoB: https://pastebin.com/PAkXLFTY

Yeah <4.2k life is definitely too low for uber elder unless you have near perfect mechanics. You want close to 5k life. I also wouldn't attempt uber elder below lvl 92, but it's definitely doable, just quite a bit harder b/c you have lower dps/life. Your gear is decent which puts you closer to ~4mil dps. This is very good for your current level so you can afford to sacrifice some damage for the sake of surviving atm.

The two life clusters: Thick Skin + Blood Drinker are essential for the build. You must take those two clusters + also the extra 6% life node to the right of Blood Drinker. This will cost you 6 passive points. To get this many pts you need to remove the 12% multi node from Throatseeker cluster. You also want to remove Will of Blades + Fangs of the Viper. Instead, take the dex node below Coordination to keep the tree connected. This will free up another 3 points. Lastly, you want to reduce the strength requirement of certain gems in your setup. For example, Shield Charge is too high lvl atm and level does virtually nothing for you. You want to reduce this + maybe steelskin by 1-2 levels. At least enough for you to drop the strength node for an additional point.

This leaves you with 1 more point you need to gain/unspec. You have 3 options to get this point.

1. reaching lvl 90

2. removing the Wandslinger cluster + speccing into the 2x 12% multi nodes in Throatseeker cluster (you lose ~100k dps)

3. giving up the 5% life node above Cruel Preparation (least recommended b/c you lose life)

Doing all this will bring you up to 4.8-4.9k life which will make the fight much easier than it is now.

If you don't go with option 3, you should unspec from Wandslinger cluster anyway + spec into Throatseeker. This will give you ~200k extra shaper dps.


You also aren't using a quicksilver of adrenaline. Without this flask you do not have enough mobility to dodge a lot of the attacks and will die a lot more. You should almost never use a second life flask unless you're doing something wrong mechanically like overspamming your life flasks, or you don't have enough dps + fight takes way too long. Your dps is fine according to POB so the latter isn't an issue. I suggest you practice using only one life flask + get used to using alchemist's quicksilver flask of adrenaline.

It would be wise to replace the hybrid mod on your belt: "%flask effect + reduced flask charges gained" with just %flask effect. The reason is b/c with your current hybrid mod, you are gaining charges less often. This is an issue and contributes to your dependency on 2 life flasks. It will also hurt you a lot for phases with less adds (some parts of uber elder fight like the shaper portal). You only need 4%+ flask effect to get the extra proj from Dying Sun. Any %flask effect above 4% barely does anything for the build, so your 9% flask effect is giving almost nothing compared to just 4% flask effect but you're reducing your charge gain by 20%. This is made worse if you roll a map mod that reduces your flask charges even further.

Also you should keep track of exactly how you're dying. The best scenario is to record the fight and show me the video that way I can give you pointers on how to improve. Of course if this isn't possible for you I suggest reading the uber elder section of the guide again + rewatching the uber elder vids from the guide. If you notice a specific situation that causes you to die often, let me know and I can try to provide some tips on how to overcome that particular situation.

Edit: You should divine your "Order" flask. The roll can go up to 120% crit, yours is around 74%

"

Enahkra wrote:

Spoiler

Hey sorry for the late reply, been pretty busy and didn't have any time to thoroughly look at your POB til now.

Yeah GGG's buff to magic/rare mobs was pretty ridiculous. There were a few people who played ele wanders prior to 3.7, tried out phys wanding this patch and complained that phys wanders had way lower dps b/c they weren't able to one-shot rares. This is extremely misleading b/c GGG effectively doubled rare monsters' life pool, which made it extremely hard to one shot with either wander type unless you had mirror-tier dps or a 5+link setup.

There are several conditions that'll need to be changed to better reflect your real dps in T16+ encounters. Firstly, you should set "Is the enemy a boss" to shaper/guardian as this will factor in the high resists that those bosses have. You should also set Projectile travel distance to 10 or less to factor in Point Blank's dps boost. "Enemy is shocked" should also be removed as POB's shock calculation is very outdated. Shock depends on how much damage you deal as a percentage of the boss's life. Because this build deals mostly cold damage + barrage has very low damage per hit + shaper/uber elder has a large life pool (18mil), it's pretty much impossible to shock those bosses. Even a pure lightning stacking ele wander will get only a few % extra damage from shock. POB assumes shock gives 50% more damage which was the case a long time ago but not anymore. Lastly, the conditions "always on full energy shield" + "leeching energy shield" are mutually exclusive. You can't be under the effect of both at the same time. If blood rage is active, you are always leeching energy shield, but never at full ES. This is the desired effect as Energy Leech gem provides more dps when you're leeching and less dps when you're at full ES.

I've also removed Cinderswallow Urn for practical purposes, as you'll definitely need a life flask like Blood of the Karui for Uber Elder. This means onslaught will also need to be unchecked

Taking all this into account your shaper dps will fluctuate between ~3.89m to ~5.39m depending on the amount of frenzy/power charges active.

Uber Elder will be very much doable with this level of dps, especially with a legacy TOH + over 5.1k life but you'll need to play the mechanics of the fight and it may be a bit tricky at first when you're getting used to the playstyle (or not, since idk your skill level/experience). The uber elder video I posted from 3.6 had ~2.8m shaper dps and no legacy TOH + no new mechanics like Steelskin/Fortify/shield charge, so it should be much easier now.

As for the fight itself, I'd advise using a spare diamond flask of order (120% crit) that way you still have the significant crit chance buff from your Cinderswallow. You'll also probably want a rare belt. It shouldn't be too hard to find one since all it would require is high life + strength + one open prefix for %flask effect to be better than HH (you'll also need a spare rare non-abyss + abyss jewel). Even if those 2 jewels had no damage mods, you'd still have an extra ~250 life which is a lot (especially when scaled up w/TOH + Fortify). I'd also suggest using Tempests's Binding over Devoto's for the fight as your movespeed will be good enough to dodge all attacks with ease, and the extra 20% movespeed from Devoto's won't help you when uber elder drastically reduces your action speed + there's almost no chaos damage in the fight). With the belt + conqueror's potency swap + tempest's binding you should be able to have ~5.5k+ life during the fight which is more than enough to survive everything aside from a slam one-shot.

I see no issue with your tree pathing, although I'd recommend replacing fervour (+1 frenzy) with the 2 remaining damage nodes in "Command of the Elements" cluster instead. It's only 27k less dps but the damage from that cluster applies in all situations. +1 frenzy won't be up for a good part of the uber elder/shaper/elder guardians/some shaper guardians fight, so realistically the 2 nodes give more dps than +1 frenzy.

Another thing to consider is that you're spending 2 points to take Vitality Void which increases your life recovery by only ~300/second. A single elder ring LGOH mod will provide ~900/second. This means if you had an elder ring + removed Vitality Void, you'd gain 2 passive points + still have 600 more life recovery per second. I'd be dishonest though if I say you'd gain more dps + life recovery by switching to elder rings. You'd be giving up a prefix slot for LGOH + probably have to use a diamond base instead of opal. The 2 extra points from removing Vitality Void would nearly offset this dps loss though.

I think at this point, increasing life recovery rate is more beneficial than increasing your life pool. High life recovery rate will enable you to facetank in more situations + for longer periods of time. In a practical sense this is effectively raising your real dps, as you spend less time kiting around and more time dealing damage. Right now your life recovery is ~2.3k, which is not bad, but we can imagine a lot of situations where bosses will be dealing more than 2.3k damage to you per second. Using 2x LGOH rings would bring your recovery rate to ~4k/second. This would eliminate the need for life flasks in a lot of situations. Of course you prefer assmark on hit from one of your rings, but I think it's worth thinking about replacing your other ring with an elder one. You'd gain 600-900 life recovery/second with the tradeoff being a little less damage.

If you have any other questions/concerns lmk.

Thanks for the exhaustive review of my POB. Your comments regarding the conditional check boxes are great and I'll make those changes to better reflect my wander's true performance.

I took the Fervour node less for the additional Frenzy charge and more for the 4% max life gained from Lethal Pride (DPS contribution was an added bonus). I think the combined node is really excellent value, so I made that pickup over a more traditional DPS node.

I'll work on acquiring a proper Diamond Flask and belt for swapping around, which will be nice as it frees my HH for another character. You make a strong point about the elder LGOH ring. I'll look into crafting or buying one, though it may be a bit challenging as I do require a bit of lightning resistance for Ele Weakness capping in red maps.

Looks like I have a bit of work to do! As an aside, do you have any thoughts regarding changes/alterations to this build in the 3.8 environment? I intend to continue playing on Standard (yikes) so I suppose major changes would be related to how the build handles Legion and Synthesis encounters?

"

Escalune wrote:

Spoiler

Thanks for the exhaustive review of my POB. Your comments regarding the conditional check boxes are great and I'll make those changes to better reflect my wander's true performance.

I took the Fervour node less for the additional Frenzy charge and more for the 4% max life gained from Lethal Pride (DPS contribution was an added bonus). I think the combined node is really excellent value, so I made that pickup over a more traditional DPS node.

I'll work on acquiring a proper Diamond Flask and belt for swapping around, which will be nice as it frees my HH for another character. You make a strong point about the elder LGOH ring. I'll look into crafting or buying one, though it may be a bit challenging as I do require a bit of lightning resistance for Ele Weakness capping in red maps.

Looks like I have a bit of work to do! As an aside, do you have any thoughts regarding changes/alterations to this build in the 3.8 environment? I intend to continue playing on Standard (yikes) so I suppose major changes would be related to how the build handles Legion and Synthesis encounters?

Ah I wasn't aware of the extra 4% life. In that case I think Fervour would be worth taking.

I suggest crafting your own elder ring which would require a budget of around ~2.5-3.5 ex? depending on your rng. The instructions should be in the guide. You would be multimodding, which enables you to craft 2x resist suffixes. This should be enough to keep you approx ele weakness capped (assuming you use Tempest's Binding). If not, you could use a resist implicit base though I don't think it'll be necessary.

Are you planning on switching to rare belt only for Uber Elder or are you planning on using it for T16 guardians too?

In the long run if you plan on making further upgrades, it would be best to stack more resists on your boots before crafting your elder ring. Right now you're at around ~80ish% on your boots, but if you were able to stack up to 120%+ (easy way to do this is w/ two-tone implicit + 2 high resist suffixes, esp since GGG changed it to allow you to have both an enchant + implicit), you would not have the issue currently with ele weakness capping on your ring. This should also enable you to free up 1-2 suffix slots on your ring for additional damage.

I think it'll really depend on the patch notes. I don't really know the full extent of their changes to the tree and the new uniques being released in 3.8. Based on what they've revealed so far though, there doesn't really seem to be any major changes affecting wanders in 3.8. I was hoping Raider would be a viable choice but the changes they made were very underwhelming.


To be frank, the build experienced some issues with Legion mechanics, because the content was extremely overtuned. There were also some weird bugs such as the Hyrri boss being immune to barrage hits etc. Hopefully they've addressed these issues before introducing it into the core game. With your legacy TOH and Loreweave, and a more defensive tree, you do have a much lower chance of getting randomly one-shot compared to the average wander who had trouble during Legion (they were usually <5k life without those legacy items). The cortex boss was absolutely terrible to fight during Synthesis when it had crazy map mods, but I think they might be nerfing that (a lot of people were requesting this nerf). Then again this was before we had access to Steelskin + Fortify which have raised our tankiness significantly. GGG does typically nerf content a bit before adding it to standard, so I think overall Legion/Synthesis content will be easier to deal with in 3.8 than in the previous leagues. If you do experience issues in 3.8 please post on this thread so we can all think of some ways to resolve them.

When the patch notes get released there'll probably be some discussions in this thread

"

Enahkra wrote:

"

IkarusRDS wrote:

Hello

I finally got to Uber Elder, but I'm having trouble defeating him and I would like some tips.

I thought of changing the auras / skill tree to something more defensive, I feel like I'm doing a good deal of damage, but I take onehit from Shaper's balls, as soon as I dodge them sooner or later I end up taking a scrape ...

My PoB: https://pastebin.com/PAkXLFTY

Yeah <4.2k life is definitely too low for uber elder unless you have near perfect mechanics. You want close to 5k life. I also wouldn't attempt uber elder below lvl 92, but it's definitely doable, just quite a bit harder b/c you have lower dps/life. Your gear is decent which puts you closer to ~4mil dps. This is very good for your current level so you can afford to sacrifice some damage for the sake of surviving atm.

The two life clusters: Thick Skin + Blood Drinker are essential for the build. You must take those two clusters + also the extra 6% life node to the right of Blood Drinker. This will cost you 6 passive points. To get this many pts you need to remove the 12% multi node from Throatseeker cluster. You also want to remove Will of Blades + Fangs of the Viper. Instead, take the dex node below Coordination to keep the tree connected. This will free up another 3 points. Lastly, you want to reduce the strength requirement of certain gems in your setup. For example, Shield Charge is too high lvl atm and level does virtually nothing for you. You want to reduce this + maybe steelskin by 1-2 levels. At least enough for you to drop the strength node for an additional point.

This leaves you with 1 more point you need to gain/unspec. You have 3 options to get this point.

1. reaching lvl 90

2. removing the Wandslinger cluster + speccing into the 2x 12% multi nodes in Throatseeker cluster (you lose ~100k dps)

3. giving up the 5% life node above Cruel Preparation (least recommended b/c you lose life)

Doing all this will bring you up to 4.8-4.9k life which will make the fight much easier than it is now.

If you don't go with option 3, you should unspec from Wandslinger cluster anyway + spec into Throatseeker. This will give you ~200k extra shaper dps.


You also aren't using a quicksilver of adrenaline. Without this flask you do not have enough mobility to dodge a lot of the attacks and will die a lot more. You should almost never use a second life flask unless you're doing something wrong mechanically like overspamming your life flasks, or you don't have enough dps + fight takes way too long. Your dps is fine according to POB so the latter isn't an issue. I suggest you practice using only one life flask + get used to using alchemist's quicksilver flask of adrenaline.

It would be wise to replace the hybrid mod on your belt: "%flask effect + reduced flask charges gained" with just %flask effect. The reason is b/c with your current hybrid mod, you are gaining charges less often. This is an issue and contributes to your dependency on 2 life flasks. It will also hurt you a lot for phases with less adds (some parts of uber elder fight like the shaper portal). You only need 4%+ flask effect to get the extra proj from Dying Sun. Any %flask effect above 4% barely does anything for the build, so your 9% flask effect is giving almost nothing compared to just 4% flask effect but you're reducing your charge gain by 20%. This is made worse if you roll a map mod that reduces your flask charges even further.

Also you should keep track of exactly how you're dying. The best scenario is to record the fight and show me the video that way I can give you pointers on how to improve. Of course if this isn't possible for you I suggest reading the uber elder section of the guide again + rewatching the uber elder vids from the guide. If you notice a specific situation that causes you to die often, let me know and I can try to provide some tips on how to overcome that particular situation.

Edit: You should divine your "Order" flask. The roll can go up to 120% crit, yours is around 74%

Hey bro! Thanks so much for the tips, they are very valuable!

I followed his tips and really the fight against Uber Elder has become much easier, I still can't kill him, but it's for my lack of experience, this is the first time I'm facing Uber Elder.

Now that the Legion is over I am thinking of "revising" my gear, I know they are good but I feel they can be even better and not cost me so much (thanks to Standart League) what I would like to know is which ones items you would recommend to upgrade.
My resistances are overcapped, when I use the flask so they are over 120%, so I was thinking of moving resistors for maybe more damage/hp.

"

IkarusRDS wrote:

Spoiler

Hey bro! Thanks so much for the tips, they are very valuable!

I followed his tips and really the fight against Uber Elder has become much easier, I still can't kill him, but it's for my lack of experience, this is the first time I'm facing Uber Elder.

Now that the Legion is over I am thinking of "revising" my gear, I know they are good but I feel they can be even better and not cost me so much (thanks to Standart League) what I would like to know is which ones items you would recommend to upgrade.
My resistances are overcapped, when I use the flask so they are over 120%, so I was thinking of moving resistors for maybe more damage/hp.

Ah, the first time is always the hardest :) but if you keep at it I'm sure you'll be able to do uber soon. Once you get the hang of it you'll be able to do it with almost any type of build.

I want to emphasize that currently, your levels matter more than your gear. Each passive point you gain atm will substantially increase your damage/tankiness b/c you're still missing a lot of good nodes on the tree. The good thing is that at your current level it's really fast to reach 92+ via pure breachstone rotas, beachhead rotas, or leeching t16 groups if the traditional lvling route is too frustrating. Right now, even if you spent 300 ex on a mirrored phys wand, it would still give less dps than just reaching lvl 94+. The lvling process only becomes extremely difficult once you hit lvl 95ish, so it's worth considering some investment into levelling until at least 92, if not higher.

As for gear, the priority would be a legacy barrage helm (+2 proj). You would buy a helm base, and then use screaming essences to craft it. Follow the crafting instructions in the guide and hit a tri-res helm (120%+ recommended). Then the second thing is to stack some more resists on your boots. Get a pair of tri-res boots (120%+), or use a two-tone base, which makes stacking res much easier.

You mentioned you're overcapped on resists, so why am I telling you to stack even more resists? It's because you're spreading your resists across too many item slots. This is bad b/c it's inefficient for dps, and it's very hard to make good upgrade. If you stack almost all your res requirement on your boots + helm, it gives you the opportunity to stack pure damage on both your rings + possibly your shield. This arrangement is the best for maximizing dps.

The best way to get dps right now is to mastercraft a pair of dps elder rings using the instructions in the guide. If you do this I think you can gain another 1mil dps. The problem is that you can't upgrade your rings because you depend on them to cap your resists. That's why if you stack enough resists on your helm + boots, you can probably craft 2x elder diamond rings without any negative consequences.

If you do everything above and you're still overcapped on resists, you can consider self-crafting a shield with the temple mod that gives 70%+ cold damage. This single mod gives as much dps as your entire belt slot, so it's something to consider. If you ever get to that point just post here and Ill give you the specific instructions (it's not in the guide). Just remember the more resists you can stack on your helm + boots, the more damage you can stack on your shield + rings. This will give you way more dps in the long run than spreading your resists + dps mods across all your gear. I would highly suggest selfcrafting everything if you can (except maybe the boots) because it's much harder finding items in the standard market and most people sell for ripoff prices.

I also would suggest looking into a legacy Loreweave with 80% max res. It's only 3% more res compared to your current one, but that 3% is a huge difference. It's equal to >10% extra life against ele damage. If you do get the legacy loreweave, aim for one with high attributes that way you can run a high steelskin + switch Master of Force cluster on your tree for Snowforged (this gives more dps + more resists).

A Double Legacy Taste of Hate is also a good investment as it increases your tankiness by a good amount + gives a bit more dps. Kinda expensive though but a good investment and you can always resell for higher later.

One last thing to note, the 10% pen enchant gives most POB dps but it's not active for Uber Elder. You may want to consider the flat cold enchant as it gives constant dps for all boss encounters.

If you follow all the suggestions above, you can probably nearly double your current dps.

Seems like GGG once again forgot wanders existed... The changes to flask effect on the tree were just terrible. They're either in very bad locations or they come with a bunch of useless mana-related mods. It would have been nice if they had at least one cluster on the right side of the tree w/ flask effect + some useful mods for attack builds. Instead they put them all near the Scion start point wtf? What were they thinking? They prob figured only spell builds want flask effect or just didn't gaf.

There's two flask effect clusters easily accessible from the main path. Taking them requires 6 points, and other than flask effect, these nodes give almost nothing. But what's worse, taking these 6 points is still not enough to hit the 50% threshold for Dying Sun. You still need 10% more flask effect. The only solutions I can think of to get this last 10% are:

1. Use an elder belt with 10% flask effect mod. Obv this would suck b/c you lose abyss jewel + belt is much harder to craft/buy.

2. Use stygian with 4-6% flask effect (Jun mastermod). And then grab Profane Chemistry using amulet enchantment. Net loss is 3 passive points, but you gain a little bit of life.

3. Use stygian with 4-6% flask effect and use a Conqueror's Potency instead of rare jewel. This sucks b/c you lose an entire jewel slot. Net loss is 3 passive points + an entire jewel slot, but the amulet enchant partially compensates for the wasted passives.

I think it's debatable which is better between option 2 + 3. Option 1 is probably the worst from a practical standpoint.


This makes me think that maybe we shouldn't even care about the Dying Sun proj anymore. It's only 10-15% more dps. If we took those 6 passive points + extra belt prefix slot and used it to get more life/damage, I think overall it would result in more dps, with the main drawback being less flask-related QOL.

And if we don't need to care about the extra proj anymore, then maybe Raider is more viable? It did get slight numerical buffs... I think Deadeye is still a bit lacking for bossing b/c of the lack of ailment immunity...yeah you can get one ailment immunity via boots, but... idk how reliable it would be to depend on flasks for shock/cold immunity. Maybe it would be ok... Deadeye does have a shit ton of OP ascendancy options.

If anyone has any suggestions/thoughts lmk.

Yeah with the new changes to flask effect node, Pathfinder got worse. Now it's only good for flask sustain and ailment immunity. I think I'll fiddle around with Raider, Deadeye, Scion or even Slayer :^) once I got the gear.

Gonna league start with a RT Impale Champion Wander, not sure how can I squeeze out DPS without crit but I can respec into Cyclone or another melee skill, or MF Deadeye Wander, still unsure.

Actually, Raider is much better both defensively and offensively now, I'll definitely try it out and report back lata, but it seems like you might have to edit your guide a lot lol.

Raider changes for reference: (open in new tab for bigger resolution)

Text:

I wasn't very fond of Pathfinder for some reasons, even with all those QoL, now I have a good reason for new, EXCITING CHANGES WOOOO!

Hey

Excellent tips thanks again, I will take all your advice and see what I can get, then I will come back here to comment on the "results".

The fight against Uber Elder is a lot of fun (and hard), I've been playing ARPG for years and always complain that there is a "challenge" missing from these games, and PoE managed to rescue it with Uber Elder.

I will first get Lv.92 (maybe Lv.95), I will invest the money I have in Beachhead/Breachstones.
Then I will focus on helm + boots (tri-res), after that I think of getting a Loreaware Legacy + Double Legacy Taste.
Finally I will try this tip about temple mod no shield, it sounds very interesting, I will ask for more details about it in the future.

Thanks and congratulations for the willingness and excellent guide!

@Enahkra, there is the option of crafting 14% flask effect/33% reduced flask charges gained hybrid and that way you can get something from the amulet enchant that could be worth those 3 points you lose? that way the netloss would be 33% reduced flask charges gained. Don't know how good it is compared to the option of dropping pathfinder entirely but... it's an option, I really don't know what to do :P