[3.5] Dual wield Mjölner Untethered revived! Shaper+Uber Elder down! (Pathfinder)

I'v respecced into this build and I got to say, its awesome. I'm still lacking a lot of gear, but I feel its worth investing into it. I got a question about flask tho, isnt shock from vinktar's worth it? Also, I see u dont use Repentance, is the rare pair you have right now that good? Why?

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maciek2g wrote:

I'v respecced into this build and I got to say, its awesome. I'm still lacking a lot of gear, but I feel its worth investing into it. I got a question about flask tho, isnt shock from vinktar's worth it? Also, I see u dont use Repentance, is the rare pair you have right now that good? Why?

i switched to rare gloves for life. i have 8,8k life now and want to grind lvls.
the attack speed is very helpful. with the new veiled mods i dont loose that much damage. i think it's overall better if you feel that you deal enough damage.

every flask that i use is better than vinktar's. wise oak, cinderswallow urn and atziri's promise all provide better damage and/or better tankiness.
you could argue against overflowing chalice but this flasks provides damage and life regen and permanent flask uptime, even in bossfights. the utility is so much better than vinktar's.

so i got a question to the Cyclone attack speed stuff.

Mjölner has a 0.15cd on triggered spells, so you want to hit 6,67 times a second

Cyclone hits 2 times per spin

Q1:
PoB doesnt take the 2 hits per spin into account right?

Q2: if so, you want to have an attack rate of 3,33 or 3,33/X where X is a positive natural number of that, or you create a dmg output deficit because you shift the inner cooldown to a point where you miss out one inner cd every few spins, am i right with that?

Q3: if my math is right, you ideally want to have an attack rate of 3,33 (ofc).
Now lets say my attack rate is at 5. Then i have 10 actual hits with cyclone per second and that should be near the "worst" point damage wise between an attack rate of 3,33 and 6,67.

Is the damage i lose so much that i need to tune down my attack speed? (going higher would be hard) or everything i said doesnt matter that much in the end?

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NostrA90 wrote:

so i got a question to the Cyclone attack speed stuff.

Mjölner has a 0.15cd on triggered spells, so you want to hit 6,67 times a second

Cyclone hits 2 times per spin

Q1:
PoB doesnt take the 2 hits per spin into account right?

Q2: if so, you want to have an attack rate of 3,33 or 3,33/X where X is a positive natural number of that, or you create a dmg output deficit because you shift the inner cooldown to a point where you miss out one inner cd every few spins, am i right with that?

Q3: if my math is right, you ideally want to have an attack rate of 3,33 (ofc).
Now lets say my attack rate is at 5. Then i have 10 actual hits with cyclone per second and that should be near the "worst" point damage wise between an attack rate of 3,33 and 6,67.

Is the damage i lose so much that i need to tune down my attack speed? (going higher would be hard) or everything i said doesnt matter that much in the end?

Im interested in this aswell. Is it like poets pen, where u hit a point of to much attack speed and you start missing triggers.

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NostrA90 wrote:

so i got a question to the Cyclone attack speed stuff.

Mjölner has a 0.15cd on triggered spells, so you want to hit 6,67 times a second

Cyclone hits 2 times per spin

Q1:
PoB doesnt take the 2 hits per spin into account right?

Q2: if so, you want to have an attack rate of 3,33 or 3,33/X where X is a positive natural number of that, or you create a dmg output deficit because you shift the inner cooldown to a point where you miss out one inner cd every few spins, am i right with that?

Q3: if my math is right, you ideally want to have an attack rate of 3,33 (ofc).
Now lets say my attack rate is at 5. Then i have 10 actual hits with cyclone per second and that should be near the "worst" point damage wise between an attack rate of 3,33 and 6,67.

Is the damage i lose so much that i need to tune down my attack speed? (going higher would be hard) or everything i said doesnt matter that much in the end?

attack speed really matters. it's very very hard to calculate correctly though.
some obvious things first:

cyclone does 2 attacks per spin. when dual wielding, every weapon attacks once. this means that ideally we want to hit 6,5 times per second with each mjölner! so it would be 6.5 attacks per second on your tooltip.

there's definitely attack times that are worse than others (like you described, sometimes lower attack speed is better than higher).


HOWEVER there's more to cyclone. it does not only spin to your attack speed, it also depends on your movement speed. if you are fast enough cycloning to the targeted point, you can start a new cyclone that is not fully based on your attack speed. try that out! cyclone through a tanky enemy with and without your movement speed flask. put your arc/ball lightning on keys to watch the cd's ping up. you will notice some difference in the amount of triggered spells.

the faster your movement speed, the more spells you can trigger.
attack speed is important as well. i am not going to tell you good attack speed numbers because i believe it's better to try for yourself with your own movement speed.

ok thanks for the quick answer.

You mentioned in your outdated section that a scion is not viable?

Do you think its possible to make it viable now? or am i wasting my time leveling a scion to test it out?

i was going for a slightly different tree with more elemental dmg nodes and a pathfinder asc and eventually a berserker (mainly for the rage buff) or inquisitor asc

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NostrA90 wrote:

ok thanks for the quick answer.

You mentioned in your outdated section that a scion is not viable?

Do you think its possible to make it viable now? or am i wasting my time leveling a scion to test it out?

i was going for a slightly different tree with more elemental dmg nodes and a pathfinder asc and eventually a berserker (mainly for the rage buff) or inquisitor asc

scion got buffed and i can see it working now. may be possible to create a scion version with higher dps than pathfinder. you'll have problems with ele ailments/bleeding though. i doubt that the scion will be as tanky.

Hello, big fan of the build, just wondering how do you deal with chaos resistance, since you have no chaos resist on gear or jewels and only get 20 chaos resist from talents which makes it -40 resist or so at higher level, also i see you have +1 frenzy charge on your amulet in your profile, but faar as i can tell no skill,talent or flask you use grants frenzy charges.

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Darmo91 wrote:

Hello, big fan of the build, just wondering how do you deal with chaos resistance, since you have no chaos resist on gear or jewels and only get 20 chaos resist from talents which makes it -40 resist or so at higher level, also i see you have +1 frenzy charge on your amulet in your profile, but faar as i can tell no skill,talent or flask you use grants frenzy charges.

atziri's promise+flask effectiveness boost the chaos resi by a lot.

i have +1 to MIN frenzy charges on amulet and ring, which means that i have permanently 2 frenzy charges. even in hideout. always. :)

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atziri's promise+flask effectiveness boost the chaos resi by a lot.

i have +1 to MIN frenzy charges on amulet and ring, which means that i have permanently 2 frenzy charges. even in hideout. always. :)

Ahh, yes this explains alot hehe, thx for the response <3