Hello once again Stag! I was playing an MF variant of your build a few leagues back and I will follow your guide once again the upcoming league. It's just too much fun and the necro changes look juicy!
While I'm at it, any thoughts on the new ascendancy? At first glance it looks like options expanded while the baseline stayed.
Very excited already, can't wait to pull the horde through packs again!
Hey, welcome back.
new necro is great, I think the nodes i'll take are:
mistress of sacrifice (2)
mindless aggression (8)
bone barrier (10)
commander of darkness (16)
I think bone barrier will be pretty solid for mapping, and I think the corpse stuff is too... random for my liking. I may be proven wrong as they are just initial thoughts.
One thing that will help increase single target is skitterbots, [if] you can link them to death mark you can have a 20% shock and chill on command.
I'm not sure if the aggressive support will be entirely useful , the phantasms seem to be pretty aggressive already. If it's close damage wise to controlled destruction then it'll be a straight swap.
For single target, slower proj out, death mark in. We also would love to squeeze in the new phys golem.... but I really really like kaoms. Why can't I just have all the things I want all the time with no issue?
while I'm at it, is there any part you'd like to see written into the guide? I'm rewriting it at the moment.
Hello once again Stag! I was playing an MF variant of your build a few leagues back and I will follow your guide once again the upcoming league. It's just too much fun and the necro changes look juicy!
While I'm at it, any thoughts on the new ascendancy? At first glance it looks like options expanded while the baseline stayed.
Very excited already, can't wait to pull the horde through packs again!
Hey, welcome back.
new necro is great, I think the nodes i'll take are:
mistress of sacrifice (2)
mindless aggression (8)
bone barrier (10)
commander of darkness (16)
I think bone barrier will be pretty solid for mapping, and I think the corpse stuff is too... random for my liking. I may be proven wrong as they are just initial thoughts.
One thing that will help increase single target is skitterbots, [if] you can link them to death mark you can have a 20% shock and chill on command.
I'm not sure if the aggressive support will be entirely useful , the phantasms seem to be pretty aggressive already. If it's close damage wise to controlled destruction then it'll be a straight swap.
For single target, slower proj out, death mark in. We also would love to squeeze in the new phys golem.... but I really really like kaoms. Why can't I just have all the things I want all the time with no issue?
while I'm at it, is there any part you'd like to see written into the guide? I'm rewriting it at the moment.
Great to see my initial thoughts confirmed. Can't even reply that much, because I completely agree! I can imagine Unnatural Strenght (12) being just too good to let go, even for phantasms. All the tools you describe should help the build in one of its few lacking parts, the single target damage. Great news overall! Maybe we'll need double unset rings to fit everything in?
If there is anything to add to the guide, I think Devouring Diadem should be mentioned. When I last ran the build, it felt just great! It gives more options for auras while giving a free full heal every 5 seconds plus a resummon. Anyone not going for the Blood Magic keystone should consider it, in my opinion.
Last edited by Monti_Jones on Sep 3, 2019, 6:58:39 AM
I can imagine Unnatural Strenght (12) being just too good to let go, even for phantasms.
Well, the base dmg increase the Phantasms receive from additional levels is in fact realy realy good. However the skill provided by Soulwrest is not granted by a skill gem an is thus not affected by Unnatural Strenght. So the node is pretty useless for this build.
As for ascendancy choices, i mostly agree with Stagsnetti. Maybe i'll swap out Bone Barrier for Corpse Pact. Since Death Walk counts as consumption that seems like a viable option if you want moar deeps for endgame. Also this might be a good alternative for skitterbots. The build is pretty socket starved as it is.
On another note, do you guys have some reliable data on Phantasms? As far as i know all attempts to get Phantasm stats from GGG or even datamining have been in vain. The wiki page even contains false information about the mechanics of the support gem. I was doing some brainstorming how we could exploit Unnatural Strenght with a Phantasm build but reliable information seems realy scarce. Maybe you could add some of that to the build guide of you have any.
I can imagine Unnatural Strenght (12) being just too good to let go, even for phantasms.
Well, the base dmg increase the Phantasms receive from additional levels is in fact realy realy good. However the skill provided by Soulwrest is not granted by a skill gem an is thus not affected by Unnatural Strenght. So the node is pretty useless for this build.
As for ascendancy choices, i mostly agree with Stagsnetti. Maybe i'll swap out Bone Barrier for Corpse Pact. Since Death Walk counts as consumption that seems like a viable option if you want moar deeps for endgame. Also this might be a good alternative for skitterbots. The build is pretty socket starved as it is.
On another note, do you guys have some reliable data on Phantasms? As far as i know all attempts to get Phantasm stats from GGG or even datamining have been in vain. The wiki page even contains false information about the mechanics of the support gem. I was doing some brainstorming how we could exploit Unnatural Strenght with a Phantasm build but reliable information seems realy scarce. Maybe you could add some of that to the build guide of you have any.
POB is broken again, I think it was from 3.4-3.5 where phantasms worked in the Soulwrest but when they changed the calculations for coc it kind of bricked the numbers. At the moment i'm just using spell + summon phantasm and looking at it that way.
12 probably isn't that good based on the wording, but it's something I'd have to test out. Maybe the new lvl 23 phantasm gem overrides the lvl 20 gem in the Soulwrest, who knows.
Hello once again Stag! I was playing an MF variant of your build a few leagues back and I will follow your guide once again the upcoming league. It's just too much fun and the necro changes look juicy!
While I'm at it, any thoughts on the new ascendancy? At first glance it looks like options expanded while the baseline stayed.
Very excited already, can't wait to pull the horde through packs again!
Hey, welcome back.
new necro is great, I think the nodes i'll take are:
mistress of sacrifice (2)
mindless aggression (8)
bone barrier (10)
commander of darkness (16)
I think bone barrier will be pretty solid for mapping, and I think the corpse stuff is too... random for my liking. I may be proven wrong as they are just initial thoughts.
One thing that will help increase single target is skitterbots, [if] you can link them to death mark you can have a 20% shock and chill on command.
I'm not sure if the aggressive support will be entirely useful , the phantasms seem to be pretty aggressive already. If it's close damage wise to controlled destruction then it'll be a straight swap.
For single target, slower proj out, death mark in. We also would love to squeeze in the new phys golem.... but I really really like kaoms. Why can't I just have all the things I want all the time with no issue?
while I'm at it, is there any part you'd like to see written into the guide? I'm rewriting it at the moment.
Great to see my initial thoughts confirmed. Can't even reply that much, because I completely agree! I can imagine Unnatural Strenght (12) being just too good to let go, even for phantasms. All the tools you describe should help the build in one of its few lacking parts, the single target damage. Great news overall! Maybe we'll need double unset rings to fit everything in?
If there is anything to add to the guide, I think Devouring Diadem should be mentioned. When I last ran the build, it felt just great! It gives more options for auras while giving a free full heal every 5 seconds plus a resummon. Anyone not going for the Blood Magic keystone should consider it, in my opinion.
12 probably isn't that good, unless the summon phantasm gem you socket into the Soulwrest overwrites the existing level 20 in the item (the item doesn't work with empower as +gem levels don't work on it). I'm also unsure if phantasms get any more damage/gem level, but it'd be stupid if they didn't.
I don't think blood magic is the way to go anymore, and the builds I've been POBing haven't been using diadem either, but that's probably just personal preference.
I think bone barrier will be huge for the build, saving your phantasms from damage and providing 10% phys reduction + 30% increased life recovery rate
12 probably isn't that good, unless the summon phantasm gem you socket into the Soulwrest overwrites the existing level 20 in the item (the item doesn't work with empower as +gem levels don't work on it). I'm also unsure if phantasms get any more damage/gem level, but it'd be stupid if they didn't.
I actually did some testing regarding this earlier.
The Soulwrest skill level is not overridden by another socketed gem even if the gem has a higher level.
So if you wanted to exploit 12 you'd have to pass on Soulwrest. But that automatically cuts 50% dmg since you only get 10 Phantasms instead of 20. In other words its pretty much impossible to create a build focused on phantasms that doesnt use it, which is kinda sad.
And yes, the Phantasms get a significant dmg increase per gem level. My guess is that an upgrade from lvl 21 to lvl 23 should give 20% - 30% more base dmg. At least thats what i got when i did some runs with a test setup so take those numbers with a grain of salt. Its not like we have test dummies...
Also, did i miss something or did the Patchnotes not even mention Phantasms? XD
So all this build gets is like Bone Armour and Skitterbots? Well its been one of the fastest summoner builds out there anyways so whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just hope Soulwrest doesnt get as expensive as in Synthesis...
12 probably isn't that good, unless the summon phantasm gem you socket into the Soulwrest overwrites the existing level 20 in the item (the item doesn't work with empower as +gem levels don't work on it). I'm also unsure if phantasms get any more damage/gem level, but it'd be stupid if they didn't.
I actually did some testing regarding this earlier.
The Soulwrest skill level is not overridden by another socketed gem even if the gem has a higher level.
So if you wanted to exploit 12 you'd have to pass on Soulwrest. But that automatically cuts 50% dmg since you only get 10 Phantasms instead of 20. In other words its pretty much impossible to create a build focused on phantasms that doesnt use it, which is kinda sad.
And yes, the Phantasms get a significant dmg increase per gem level. My guess is that an upgrade from lvl 21 to lvl 23 should give 20% - 30% more base dmg. At least thats what i got when i did some runs with a test setup so take those numbers with a grain of salt. Its not like we have test dummies...
Also, did i miss something or did the Patchnotes not even mention Phantasms? XD
So all this build gets is like Bone Armour and Skitterbots? Well its been one of the fastest summoner builds out there anyways so whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just hope Soulwrest doesnt get as expensive as in Synthesis...
phantasms weren't explicitly mentioned but a few things aid us.
Carrion golem, deathmark, skitterbois, feeding frenzy and more health will help the phantasms survive longer. We also don't need to grab any duration in the tree so we can think about alternative pathing.
Guardian could be another option if you are using diadem, onslaught + 10% increased spell damage taken + 10% more damage could really work in our favour
Might have to fiddle a little bit.
initial thoughts are 4l death mark feeding frenzy golem skitterbois, but I'm unsure how much mana that would take. hopefully the golem isn't squishy as anything....
12 probably isn't that good, unless the summon phantasm gem you socket into the Soulwrest overwrites the existing level 20 in the item (the item doesn't work with empower as +gem levels don't work on it). I'm also unsure if phantasms get any more damage/gem level, but it'd be stupid if they didn't.
I actually did some testing regarding this earlier.
The Soulwrest skill level is not overridden by another socketed gem even if the gem has a higher level.
So if you wanted to exploit 12 you'd have to pass on Soulwrest. But that automatically cuts 50% dmg since you only get 10 Phantasms instead of 20. In other words its pretty much impossible to create a build focused on phantasms that doesnt use it, which is kinda sad.
And yes, the Phantasms get a significant dmg increase per gem level. My guess is that an upgrade from lvl 21 to lvl 23 should give 20% - 30% more base dmg. At least thats what i got when i did some runs with a test setup so take those numbers with a grain of salt. Its not like we have test dummies...
Also, did i miss something or did the Patchnotes not even mention Phantasms? XD
So all this build gets is like Bone Armour and Skitterbots? Well its been one of the fastest summoner builds out there anyways so whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just hope Soulwrest doesnt get as expensive as in Synthesis...
phantasms weren't explicitly mentioned but a few things aid us.
Carrion golem, deathmark, skitterbois, feeding frenzy and more health will help the phantasms survive longer. We also don't need to grab any duration in the tree so we can think about alternative pathing.
Guardian could be another option if you are using diadem, onslaught + 10% increased spell damage taken + 10% more damage could really work in our favour
Might have to fiddle a little bit.
initial thoughts are 4l death mark feeding frenzy golem skitterbois, but I'm unsure how much mana that would take. hopefully the golem isn't squishy as anything....
My reasoning with Unnatural Strength was that the new support gems or the golem could be overtuned and turn out to be insane with a few more levels. Guess I'll have to see how the numbers turn out. Nevertheless, Bone Barrier will be there and looks definitely good.
I'm still not quite sure what to do with all the new toys Blight is handing us, but I guess we can find out the specifics somewhere along the way. Phatasms should still rock anyways! Crossing my fingers for Soulwrest below 1ex.
My reasoning with Unnatural Strength was that the new support gems or the golem could be overtuned and turn out to be insane with a few more levels. Guess I'll have to see how the numbers turn out. Nevertheless, Bone Barrier will be there and looks definitely good.
I'm still not quite sure what to do with all the new toys Blight is handing us, but I guess we can find out the specifics somewhere along the way. Phatasms should still rock anyways! Crossing my fingers for Soulwrest below 1ex.
I doubt it will be below an ex at leauge start. Wizards first rule. I'll be going spectres + zombies or srs (probably the former) until yellow maps at least.
the golem could be strong but I doubt +2 levels to it will suddenly give 20% more damage, We'll see
I wonder if there's a dark pact necro build, +2 levels for spells is a fair bit after all
Last edited by Stagsnetti on Sep 4, 2019, 5:46:52 AM
Thought it would be important to leave this little tibit from Rory here:
"The +2 to all Minion Skill Gems doesn't apply to the Phantasm Support or other minion supports, nor does it apply to minion skills that come directly from items like Soulwrest, as they're not actual gems."
