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From what i can tell in POB running the phis to lightning with conductivity is about 9% more dps than running added cold with frostbite.

I'm not sure if the 9% ish damage increase over a 14% increased chance to freeze is worth it? delves seems to almost freeze solid running conductivity +phys to lightning with the above staff, i'd have to roll a GGBBBB on another staff to test it out.

Also a side effect of the curse is it makes seeing mobs in the dark much easier, a nice QoL side effect.

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the_potatoe wrote:

From what i can tell in POB running the phis to lightning with conductivity is about 9% more dps than running added cold with frostbite.

I'm not sure if the 9% ish damage increase over a 14% increased chance to freeze is worth it? delves seems to almost freeze solid running conductivity +phys to lightning with the above staff, i'd have to roll a GGBBBB on another staff to test it out.

Also a side effect of the curse is it makes seeing mobs in the dark much easier, a nice QoL side effect.

I have a couple concerns with your setup:
-First off, EE is a no go with Impresence as the amulet adds lightning/cold damage to our boots, so you're missing out on 50% ele pen that works on everything, even curse immune/resistant (such as Shaper).
-Next, the more obvious point, you're missing out on 15-20% spell block the Stone of Lazwhar gives, which is a huge defensive boost.
-If the phantasm's damage was fully/mostly converted onto one element, I'd consider conductivity or frostbite a lot more. As it is, it gets split into 3 more or less equal ways, which makes increasing the damage of only one of those parts not as good as increasing all of it. This is why Projectile Weakness is the best curse, as you get 44% MORE damage on phys, lightning, and cold. Unfortunately, it doesn't get its own Impresence, which is why we took Curse on Hit for it in the boots, to not reserve mana.

Now, to actually answer your question. Ele Proliferation is a 20% chance to freeze (and shock). You have 20 phantasms each shooting out 5 projectiles per cast that pierce and hit multiple enemies. You just need one to freeze to spread the freeze to all the other enemies thanks to the proliferation. 20% chance is more than enough to do that, adding extra chance to freeze is most definitely not worth it. So I'd go with the 9% extra damage with conductivity.

This is how I would do your variation, though it's just a suggestion:
Corrupt your Impresence and try to get +1 curse, and use Blasphemy + Proj Weakness + . Dropping BM and reserving your mana would be the way to do it (drop the essence worm too in that case and run Hatred with generosity). You can replace Essence Worm with a Voideye and put your offering in it, which should help a bit with the sockets. Unless you have a chest with sockets though, you'll be very starved on gems.

How are you testing the phantasm damage in PoB?

About calcing Phantasms dps in PoB, i was just experimenting adding jewels with different stats crafted in PoB, and came to the conclusion, that the most adequate way to calc it is next:

Create Raise Spectre skill, link all the Staff skills to it.
Manage Spectre and add Noisome Ophidian.
Select Tar Projectile instead of Default attack.
In Calc^Minion Stats section it will show all the nodes/skills/items we need in Skill Hit and Cast Rate sections. At least all that i've tested so far.

It doesnt add Ele/Chaos component to base damage as many other variants.
It scales with Cast speed instead of Attack speed.
It hasnt huge Base damage from skill (and i think Phantasms neither have) so it scales to straight phys add better.
It has only 1 node (Soul Weaver 100% inc damage) that fuck up damage calc. So you need to take it away, if you have, while testing.

It still think that Spell Echo will be great support, though.


So if we put base skill damage similar (with acceptable inaccuracy) to Phantasms this way let us scale items/skills/nodes pretty good.

PS. though it's my first league in PoE and i can miss smth stupid, as newbie that lack overall knowledge. So this all requires confirmation. Hadnt played/theorycraft arpgs since Diablo2 times.

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magicdownunder wrote:

U.Elder down (cost 1.5 exalted).

I died a lot and it was messy, lesson learnt I'm HORRIBLE at timing. I suggest for those like me who don't have the reflexes or skills to just keep "Death Walk" and spec into "Puppet Master" so that you can JUST cast desecrate and walk on them when the phantasms are down.

Don't bother with EE or offering and just keep running loops and casting desecrate whenever your phantasms are down, keep doing that and you'll win.

- - -

Also 383 floors delve deep now (beat the lich at 375, blind run), I'm not sure this build (or at least my variant) can break into 450 since I find myself taking insane amounts of damage which my flask can't really keep up with... maybe some curse over hatred might be needed when you get lower.

which variant or build ur playing?
can u share ur pob? wanted to see ur gem setup and gears

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tarabuka_ava wrote:

About calcing Phantasms dps in PoB, i was just experimenting adding jewels with different stats crafted in PoB, and came to the conclusion, that the most adequate way to calc it is next:

Create Raise Spectre skill, link all the Staff skills to it.
Manage Spectre and add Noisome Ophidian.
Select Tar Projectile instead of Default attack.
In Calc^Minion Stats section it will show all the nodes/skills/items we need in Skill Hit and Cast Rate sections. At least all that i've tested so far.

It doesnt add Ele/Chaos component to base damage as many other variants.
It scales with Cast speed instead of Attack speed.
It hasnt huge Base damage from skill (and i think Phantasms neither have) so it scales to straight phys add better.
It has only 1 node (Soul Weaver 100% inc damage) that fuck up damage calc. So you need to take it away, if you have, while testing.

It still think that Spell Echo will be great support, though.


So if we put base skill damage similar (with acceptable inaccuracy) to Phantasms this way let us scale items/skills/nodes pretty good.

PS. though it's my first league in PoE and i can miss smth stupid, as newbie that lack overall knowledge. So this all requires confirmation. Hadnt played/theorycraft arpgs since Diablo2 times.

Hey, You're on the right track for calculating dps however - the phantasms don't miss as they cast a spell. The best way to have a look at dps is to use the spell ethereal knives and pick up spiritial aid. The Minion damage gem is always used in every damaging minion build so it can be discounted.

I think the phantasms have half decent base damage by the way. Good work thinking outside the box

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cbasz wrote:

This is how I would do your variation, though it's just a suggestion:
Corrupt your Impresence and try to get +1 curse, and use Blasphemy + Proj Weakness + . Dropping BM and reserving your mana would be the way to do it (drop the essence worm too in that case and run Hatred with generosity). You can replace Essence Worm with a Voideye and put your offering in it, which should help a bit with the sockets. Unless you have a chest with sockets though, you'll be very starved on gems.

How are you testing the phantasm damage in PoB?

Im doing janky testing with just using zombies and applying a single gem at a time to see how it impacts damage, not ideal or accurate but its better than nothing. i'll try the ethereal knives route as well.

I think for mapping and delve it feels like the lightning curse setup is higher applied DPS because the lightning damage source is gem based and not like most of the cold damage increase from hatred+generosity and im applying conductivity ahead of minions. My minions spend more time on the outer 25% of my screen behind me or off screen and out of range of hatred most of the time it seems.
This may be different if i ran added cold damage over added lightning damage, but would still favor frostbite for fast stuff, bosses are another story.

Im thinking of dropping EE and using Windshriek and Cospri's Will, going triple curse with proj weakness, ele weakness and frostbite. can swap ele weakness for enfeeble/temp chains as well.
I would need to grab Sovereignty to make it work along with hatred (have 5% mana reserved in bone helm already) and swap to added cold damage instead of lightning.

I'm not sure if this would be more or less damage than the normal EE build damage, EE's better in that it bypasses the hand full or so of hex immune mobs that matter.
I think everything else would take more damage, hexproof would no longer be an issue anymore for proj weakness and being able to aoe temp chains/enfeeble while phase running would add some defense back.
I'm hardly running over corpses so the QoL from bubonics isnt that big for me and bone offering is enough to keep phantasms up, also not having to make sure im desecrating and running really close to a boss every 5 seconds would be nice, i rather be half a screen away once every 15 seconds (longer if temp chains) to apply curses then can do whatever with phaserun and bone offering.


==

after thinking it over a bit im going to try the physical damage build out with windshriek so i can double curse vulnerability and proj weakness while keeping a shaped chest

I'm having a blast so far wit this build. Thanks OP!

I recently bought Might of the Meek jewel, I wonder where should I put the 7 respecced points from Gravepact and Potency of Will.

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tarabuka_ava wrote:

Create Raise Spectre skill, link all the Staff skills to it.
Manage Spectre and add Noisome Ophidian.
Select Tar Projectile instead of Default attack.
In Calc^Minion Stats section it will show all the nodes/skills/items we need in Skill Hit and Cast Rate sections. At least all that i've tested so far.

Fantastic! I was looking for a physical spell projectile damage spectre but being unfamiliar with summoners in general I failed and gave up. This lets me check out some options, thanks!

Trying it out myself in PoB, Maim (and also Slower Projectiles but I don't like it personally) is a dps boost over faster casting in the single target setup for the ele variant, about 8% better on PoB.
I checked the math just in case, faster casting is about 22% more casts per second (effectively a 22% more multiplier) compared to the 30% more physical damage (on the phantasms this is just like 30% more damage). You also get the benefit of both maiming and hindering the enemy (60% reduced movement speed), which will slow bosses to a crawl.

I'll test it out this evening

EDIT: woops, maim only supports attack skills so is unusable...

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the_potatoe wrote:

after thinking it over a bit im going to try the physical damage build out with windshriek so i can double curse vulnerability and proj weakness while keeping a shaped chest

Go for it, I think it's better for the way you're building it! I wasn't a big fan of taking windshriek and cospri's, you lose a lot of defense!

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CaptainBrussy wrote:

I'm having a blast so far wit this build. Thanks OP!

I recently bought Might of the Meek jewel, I wonder where should I put the 7 respecced points from Gravepact and Potency of Will.

With might of the meek, don't remove the points leading up to gravepact and potency of will, they're non-notable nodes and have a better effect with the jewel (check out stag's or my character's tree if I'm unclear).
Therefore, you'll have 2 extra points, which you should dump into life nodes.
Alternatively, though it's up to preference, I prefer to pick up the 3 increased flask effect at the witch area. It lets me cap my attack block with Rumi's.

Ty for the nice build!

I use your version too with blood magic and brutality ( but with skelet , animated and zombie).

Did i have to use the migh meek near the scion ? And 1 or 2 ? For physical.


Got one question sir too why you dont use vigilant with the unique jewel ( It gives fortify during 27sec at you AND your minion) the tanking is insane!

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Godnesse wrote:

Ty for the nice build!

I use your version too with blood magic and brutality ( but with skelet , animated and zombie).

Did i have to use the migh meek near the scion ? And 1 or 2 ? For physical.


Got one question sir too why you dont use vigilant with the unique jewel ( It gives fortify during 27sec at you AND your minion) the tanking is insane!

Yes, use two in the sockets at the scion area, they overlap over the life nodes and give us a huge life boost, among other benefits.

By running a kaom's heart and bubonic trail we're very starved on sockets, so it's hard to find a place fit in vigilant strike. Not to mention we'd be trading an abyss jewel for the unique jewel. Finally, we have shitty attack speed which makes vigilant strike very slow and clunky to use (though with 27s duration that's less of a problem)
If you have the sockets though, it's not a bad option! Fortify is great for defenses