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Having run multiple red elders and shaper, I can affirm that slower projectile is doing more harm than good in the single target setup. Ele focus or arcane surge (if it works on phantasms) in its place will dish out comparable dps (ele focus will even do more if you have penetration from like EE, and it’s not like you can/need to apply ailments to bosses), and the phantasms will get decent range for more consistent dps and dying less to aoe effects

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cbasz wrote:

Having run multiple red elders and shaper, I can affirm that slower projectile is doing more harm than good in the single target setup.

Are you sure? Slower projectiles doesn't effect cast speed so the only issues is... well how slow the projectiles move so the solution is to go in pointblank and cast convocation.

EDIT: I'm sure most people on this thread are on the Death Walk plan so you need to weave in and out anyways to apply EE every 4 sec (which is also enough time for convocation).

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Side note look at what I've crafted:



Combined with my Crown of the Tyrant on animated guardian equal super fun times.

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magicdownunder wrote:

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cbasz wrote:

Having run multiple red elders and shaper, I can affirm that slower projectile is doing more harm than good in the single target setup.

Are you sure? Slower projectiles doesn't effect cast speed so the only issues is... well how slow the projectiles move so the solution is to go in pointblank and cast convocation.

EDIT: I'm sure most people on this thread is on the Death Walk plan so you need to weave in and out anyways to apply EE every 4 sec (which is also enough time for convocation).

- - -

Side note look at what I've crafted:

Combined with my Crown of the Tyrant on animated guardian equal super fun times.

Wow! that helm is sick! please tell me you can put 4 green sockets on it and it will give the flat cold to your minions.

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magicdownunder wrote:

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cbasz wrote:

Having run multiple red elders and shaper, I can affirm that slower projectile is doing more harm than good in the single target setup.

Are you sure? Slower projectiles doesn't effect cast speed so the only issues is... well how slow the projectiles move so the solution is to go in pointblank and cast convocation.

Side note look at what I've crafted:

Combined with my Crown of the Tyrant on animated guardian equal super fun times.

The phantasm’s spell works like EK: projectile range depends on it’s projectile speed, which is why we have faster projectile on the mapping links. With slower proj, they’re pretty much in melee range.

EDIT: You’ll have to check on PoB to see how your damage is split (look at your zombie stats). With the pen + EE + flat added ele damage, there’s a strong chance ele focus adds more dps than slower proj. It does at least in my case. A case can be made for arcane surge but i’ll have to test how rapidly it procs on phantasms, if even at all
Also, the range is so small you sometimes don’t have all 20 firing, theyre moving to get in position, which is a huge dps loss.
Finally, the greater range has the side benefit of “accidently” clearing any adds while focusing boss

Saving up for a crown myself, just spent all my cash getting a +3 minion level / lvl 20 minion life helm, as I wanted to ensure my guardian’s immortal before putting such an expensive item on it.

@mshimmyb1 it only has one socket (itd be broken OP otherwise), but it does give the flat damage to minions! Definitely BiS for animate guardian!

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cbasz wrote:

Also, the range is so small you sometimes don’t have all 20 firing, theyre moving to get in position, which is a huge dps loss.

Have you tried convocation? All the ghost clump up and fire at once.

Anyhow I don't think testing on zombies is quite fair, with Ethereal Knives and the node "Weapon Cold Damage" selected to mimic the gloves I found that slower projectile still edges out slightly (keep in mind I'm on added fire (which is terrible with plan death walk), I'm quite sure with Cold Pen the Slow Projectiles damage differences would be even higher).

THAT said I do agree that the downtime which they could have used sniping the boss does add up so if your using two staff you might as well use elemental focus for the single target set-up for the more faster moving bosses (I don't really count shaper or u.elder as fast moving though).

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magicdownunder wrote:

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cbasz wrote:

Also, the range is so small you sometimes don’t have all 20 firing, theyre moving to get in position, which is a huge dps loss.

Have you tried convocation? All the ghost clump up and fire at once.

Anyhow I don't think testing on zombies is quite fair, with Ethereal Knives and the node "Weapon Cold Damage" selected to mimic the gloves I found that slower projectile still edges out slightly (keep in mind I'm on added fire (which is terrible with plan death walk), I'm quite sure with Cold Pen the Slow Projectiles damage differences would be even higher).

THAT said I do agree that the downtime which they could have used sniping the boss does add up so if your using two staff you might as well use elemental focus for the single target set-up for the more faster moving bosses (I don't really count shaper or u.elder as fast moving though).

I use the zombies just to get the info of how minion physical damage gets split, which appears when you hover over the MH hit damage of each element. Not near my pc atm but i believe i was split 22% phys, 78% elemental (no res or EE), or something in that ballpark. Slow Proj being 29% more, you get 129% damage. Ele Focus is 49% more but only on the ele part, so 22%+78%*1.49= 138%. With EE, the ele proportion gets high and ele focus comes out even more ahead. The breakpoint is a 40% phys damage portion, above that Slow Proj does more damage.

The way the damage gets split is the same for zombies as for phantasms, so I think this is the best way to calculate it.
If the math is wrong let me know!

EDIT: make sure you add proper supports (either added fire, phys to light, or cold pen) to the zombie links to do this!
EDIT2: Just checked, I misremembered how the damage was split, or rather, 22% phys is the value with EE and -9% cold/light from animate guardian helm. If you're using cold pen instead of phys to light, even with EE phys is 51% of the phantasm's damage, so Slower Proj is better.

CONCLUSION: Phys to lightning -> use ele focus, cold pen -> use slower proj, something else? check if phys damage represents a >40% portion of your minions' damage, if so slow proj, if not ele focus

Hello Stag,
Right now i'm use the following staff for clear maps\delve



And the following for bosses :




The rest equip are :




Could you, please, advice which gems will improve my damage ( brutality for both
or ? ) ?

Thanks in advance.

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Skelqua wrote:

Hello Stag,
Right now i'm use the following staff for clear maps\delve

And the following for bosses :

The rest equip are :

Could you, please, advice which gems will improve my damage ( brutality for both
or ? ) ?

Thanks in advance.

If you plan on going full physical, drop the grip of the council for rare gloves, drop essence worm/hatred for a rare ring, pick up stone of lazwhar for the spell block (helps quite a bit for def), and replace cold penetration and added fire for brutality.

If you decide to stay with elemental damage, you don't need to change your gear. Grab Elemental Equilibrium on the tree, and swap Added Fire for either cold penetration or physical to lightning. If you're minmaxing, physical to lightning will outperform cold penetration on both your clear and your boss setups.

You should swap minion damage with blood magic on your helm so your ape can cast its frenzy way more often.

You should be saving up to upgrade in the following order: Kaom's chest, might of the meek x2, stygian belt, decent abyss jewels, helmet with minion levels minion life and life

so the general census is that phys to light is better than cold pen dps wise? But you would not be getting the shatters or at least not as many, so less defense. I would hate to not get all the shatters, so satisfying. But is that the general census for min maxing just dps?

Any other auras/buffs I can replace Haste with? I find myself not really needing it since I already move pretty fast without it.

Thanks for the build.