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Thanks for clarifying.
So I take it the stone golem regen is primarily for yourself, not the minions?
As for the faster projectiles support, I don't see any totems in the build (spider version that is), are you referring to the lightning spire?
According to the wiki the lightning spire trap does not have the projectile tag, rendering it useless.
Just a normal faster casting to it procs shock more/faster? or am I overlooking something?
In Spiders and Spectres build there is Optional Wand & Shield - Weapon Set 2
I don't see any lightning spire in this build :)
Last edited by Singrave on Apr 8, 2020, 7:01:04 PM
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Posted bySingraveon Apr 8, 2020, 6:59:55 PM
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Ah you are right.
But there is in the POB profile.
Seems like either the POB or written guide got updated, but not both.
However with faster projectiles support, the projectiles move faster (duh), but don't travel further I think.
Wouldn't faster casting for increased frenzy generation or increased aoe for larger attack range (larger consecrated ground area?) make more sense?
Not saying you're wrong, just trying to weigh in all the options :)
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Posted bysoundpoolon Apr 8, 2020, 7:12:32 PM
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Wouldn't faster casting for increased frenzy generation or increased aoe for larger attack range (larger consecrated ground area?) make more sense?
Not saying you're wrong, just trying to weigh in all the options :)
From PoE wiki: "Projectile Speed: Affects the distance that the projectile will travel as well as its speed."
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Holy_Flame_Totem#Skill_Functions_and_Interactions
You won't stand still near the totem, btw.
Frenzy charges won't play much role in long boss fights and useless in short boss fights. So it's more about theorycrafting and min-maxing.
Last edited by Singrave on Apr 8, 2020, 7:38:03 PM
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Posted bySingraveon Apr 8, 2020, 7:24:58 PM
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First off, thanks for this amazing guide.
I'm wondering if anyone has tuned the EB/MOM (or just life-based league-start/SSF build) that is highly optimized around survivability. To be honest, I don't have many issues surviving under normal conditions, and I don't imagine I'd have any issue with Uber Elder or Sirus 8, but my biggest issue is spikes of damage from maps with delirium added to it, and Simulacrum.
Earlier I was able to do the full wave 20 simulacrum, but I took 2 deaths to random groups of mobs. I'm thinking that if I can't be leeching, I would need more block/CWDT/eHP.. but with cluster jewels and other optimizations that are based around minions survivablity and damage in this build, I'm not sure the most efficient way to balance out extra survivability for the player.
In short, I would like to min-max the damage and survivability of my minions with creating a beefier character (especially since minion damage does not seem to be an issue at all). For reference, I'm currently running Redemption Sentries with the EB/MoM version for all content, but could do RS for mapping, EVF for bossing in the case that we sacrifice a ton of minion damage for defenses.
Options off the top of my head:
- Finding more block chance on the tree or adding something like The Red Nightmare
- Armor stacking + The Surrender + Molten Shell
- Jewels like lethal pride on MoM spot with + big life gain on block
- dropping something for Bone Barrier
- More reservation and adding Discipline, or dropping the second damage aura for discipline. Maybe
At any rate, these are a few thoughts among a huge number of possibilities, so I'm moreso looking to the experts here for some advice :)
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Posted bySkiller41on Apr 8, 2020, 10:44:14 PM
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If it's because EVF deal primarily elemental damage, then the melee physical damage support in the 6link doesn't make much sense.
POB think that multistrike and melee physical damage both much better than any elemental damage supports.
EVF's Elemental Hit is different than the one used by a player. It's a Physical to Elemental conversion of a randomly chosen element. There's a whole discussion on this on pages 857 & 858.
Also, POB doesn't do this properly, leaving the damage as physical so you can't really trust it's gem choices.
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On a different note, Arena Masters pair nicely with Spiders due to their really high base movement speed. The 40% boost is pretty noticeable to the point that my clears felt smoother.
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Posted byShmooDudeon Apr 8, 2020, 11:36:57 PM
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First off, thanks for this amazing guide.
I'm wondering if anyone has tuned the EB/MOM (or just life-based league-start/SSF build) that is highly optimized around survivability. To be honest, I don't have many issues surviving under normal conditions, and I don't imagine I'd have any issue with Uber Elder or Sirus 8, but my biggest issue is spikes of damage from maps with delirium added to it, and Simulacrum.
Earlier I was able to do the full wave 20 simulacrum, but I took 2 deaths to random groups of mobs. I'm thinking that if I can't be leeching, I would need more block/CWDT/eHP.. but with cluster jewels and other optimizations that are based around minions survivablity and damage in this build, I'm not sure the most efficient way to balance out extra survivability for the player.
In short, I would like to min-max the damage and survivability of my minions with creating a beefier character (especially since minion damage does not seem to be an issue at all). For reference, I'm currently running Redemption Sentries with the EB/MoM version for all content, but could do RS for mapping, EVF for bossing in the case that we sacrifice a ton of minion damage for defenses.
Options off the top of my head:
- Finding more block chance on the tree or adding something like The Red Nightmare
- Armor stacking + The Surrender + Molten Shell
- Jewels like lethal pride on MoM spot with + big life gain on block
- dropping something for Bone Barrier
- More reservation and adding Discipline, or dropping the second damage aura for discipline. Maybe
At any rate, these are a few thoughts among a huge number of possibilities, so I'm moreso looking to the experts here for some advice :)
Here is what I am running. Based off of the life based/league start. Crafted my Chest and my Helm. Using RS for spectres. All credit to Kay, only a few minor modifications. 7700 hp max spell and attack block using kiloava.
https://pastebin.com/T0RgTzYL
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Posted byInseinityon Apr 8, 2020, 11:38:05 PM
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There is any way to improve the boss dmg with spider/spectre build
im using fallen vaal but i dont have enough dmg i guess and i died like 4 times against conquer and im using the second wand trick with the holy flame
am i do somthing worng here?
Look at my build for S&S in the profile.
With this build i'm melting the conquerors in 3-4 seconds. Have 7k Life, and 75% block/54% spell block, huge amount of armour & constantly 3 endurance charges. Right now i'm only experiementing with the body armour.
I have nearly the same skill tree as you, but my block is only 64/34. Where is the extra block % coming from? My Bone offering gem is level 24.
Also, I noticed that your Hatred is not linked to Generosity. How does that affect your dps?
Last edited by vincentk on Apr 8, 2020, 11:59:59 PM
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Posted byvincentkon Apr 8, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
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First off, thanks for this amazing guide.
I'm wondering if anyone has tuned the EB/MOM (or just life-based league-start/SSF build) that is highly optimized around survivability. To be honest, I don't have many issues surviving under normal conditions, and I don't imagine I'd have any issue with Uber Elder or Sirus 8, but my biggest issue is spikes of damage from maps with delirium added to it, and Simulacrum.
Earlier I was able to do the full wave 20 simulacrum, but I took 2 deaths to random groups of mobs. I'm thinking that if I can't be leeching, I would need more block/CWDT/eHP.. but with cluster jewels and other optimizations that are based around minions survivablity and damage in this build, I'm not sure the most efficient way to balance out extra survivability for the player.
In short, I would like to min-max the damage and survivability of my minions with creating a beefier character (especially since minion damage does not seem to be an issue at all). For reference, I'm currently running Redemption Sentries with the EB/MoM version for all content, but could do RS for mapping, EVF for bossing in the case that we sacrifice a ton of minion damage for defenses.
Options off the top of my head:
- Finding more block chance on the tree or adding something like The Red Nightmare
- Armor stacking + The Surrender + Molten Shell
- Jewels like lethal pride on MoM spot with + big life gain on block
- dropping something for Bone Barrier
- More reservation and adding Discipline, or dropping the second damage aura for discipline. Maybe
At any rate, these are a few thoughts among a huge number of possibilities, so I'm moreso looking to the experts here for some advice :)
If you look at my current character I made a bunch of slight modifications to the build. It's more or less the same thing but I focused a little more on damage on certain parts. I'm currently lvl 97.5. For my personal playstyle, focusing slightly more on damage helps me stay alive quite a bit. RS tend to offscreen mobs very easily and as long as you stay mobile you should be fine while spamming flasks. In my experience, a curse immunity flask is very important especially as delirium mobs like to apply curses. I also use garb of the ephemeral on my AG and a vixen's entrapment to apply a 2nd curse of choice. The garb makes the action speed reductions from delirium mobs much less annoying. This is not cheap and I have lost a few ex worth of gear on my AG's to bad play and carelessness (look at you sirus). I would consider my current setup on the much higher end.
Last edited by Kokazhen on Apr 9, 2020, 1:44:55 AM
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Posted byKokazhenon Apr 9, 2020, 1:33:24 AM
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I had an interesting comment on my youtube that others might want to test out:
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Might want to slot triple Vengeful Commander / Precise Commander in there. I have been scaling the Hatred Aura like that with a 40% Hatred Redeemer Convoking Wand and I believe the Aura Medium Clusters absolutely destroy Renewal Medium Clusters in terms of pure damage.
Precise Commander
You and nearby Allies have 50% increased Critical Strike Chance
You and nearby Allies have +15% to Critical Strike Multiplier
Vengeful Commander
Anger has 30% increased Aura Effect
Wrath has 30% increased Aura Effect
Hatred has 30% increased Aura Effect
This works well with the S&S build because of power charges from poison kills.
For EB & MoM, I'm testing 2x Venegeful / First
First Among Equals
10% increased effect of Non-Curse Auras from your Skills
Non-Curse Aura Skills have 20% increased Duration
I use 2 mediums, so I get total 92% increased hatred effect and 32% increased haste. It seems pretty good!
Edit:
I'm not sure if my maths is good, but it seems like big numbers.
Hatred: gain 26% phys as cold / 19% more cold damage.
Linked to Generosity: 26 x 1.40 = 36.4 / 19 x 1.40 = 26.6
Linked to Generosity and using two aura clusters: 26 x 2.32 = 60.3 / 19 x 2.32 = 44
60% phys gained as cold / 44% more cold damage.
But actually hatred has a self interaction!
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Self Interaction: Note that the more cold damage part interact with the extra cold damage part, as such, even assuming this is your only source of cold damage, a lvl 20 gem would actually give 25% and 18% of that, hence 29,5% physical as extra cold (31% at lvl 21).
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Hatred
So it's actually 60% gain x 1.44 = 86%!
Can someone check my maths? This seems broken.
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶 Last edited by kayella on Apr 9, 2020, 3:57:26 AM
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Posted bykayellaon Apr 9, 2020, 3:40:30 AM
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If it's because EVF deal primarily elemental damage, then the melee physical damage support in the 6link doesn't make much sense.
POB think that multistrike and melee physical damage both much better than any elemental damage supports.
EVF's Elemental Hit is different than the one used by a player. It's a Physical to Elemental conversion of a randomly chosen element. There's a whole discussion on this on pages 857 & 858.
Also, POB doesn't do this properly, leaving the damage as physical so you can't really trust it's gem choices.
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On a different note, Arena Masters pair nicely with Spiders due to their really high base movement speed. The 40% boost is pretty noticeable to the point that my clears felt smoother.
Thanks, stupid me checked the support wiki only (it was late) and not the one for the totem. Faster projectiles seem better then indeed :)
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If it's because EVF deal primarily elemental damage, then the melee physical damage support in the 6link doesn't make much sense.
POB think that multistrike and melee physical damage both much better than any elemental damage supports.
EVF's Elemental Hit is different than the one used by a player. It's a Physical to Elemental conversion of a randomly chosen element. There's a whole discussion on this on pages 857 & 858.
Also, POB doesn't do this properly, leaving the damage as physical so you can't really trust it's gem choices.
---
On a different note, Arena Masters pair nicely with Spiders due to their really high base movement speed. The 40% boost is pretty noticeable to the point that my clears felt smoother.
Thanks for the explanation.
Seems like a better option for mapping, but how do they fare against bosses?
(in theory) I like the EVF because they complement the spiders. spiders for fast clear and movement, EVF for big hits on bosses.
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Posted bysoundpoolon Apr 9, 2020, 3:45:39 AM
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