3.3 Does my Power Siphon Build make any sense

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ExtremKaltesGrab wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to come up with a halfway decent Power Siphon league starter build that has some options to scale into late game but I still can't figure out some details (rather most details). As far as I know, elemental will beat physical for wands most of the time, and there are no decent physical wand uniques, whereas for elemental there is at least Piscator's Vigil, though Corona Solaris' fire damage might be a viable option.

My build looks like this currently
https://pastebin.com/QakGDPKd

Does this build make any sense? (Will replace Power Siphon with its Vaal version in the actual bild ofc)...

I made some adjustments to your pastebin, reworked the tree a bit while keeping pierce (even though i highly recommend going for chain on a Power Siphon wander.

https://pastebin.com/JambHXzU

this gives ~10% less life% which should be fine because with good jewels and gear you can still achieve something like 5,8-6k life.

a key part is changing hyrri's ire with queen of the forest armour. you have no good movement skills as a wander so you want to move really fast if possible. get a jade flask of reflexes and you will hit something like 100-150% movement speed depending on gear / flasks / whatever.

get a stygian belt for another socket, think about going for a tombfist glove + murderous eye jewel for another socket + intimidate.

in my opinion for your jewels you should aim for life + 2 dmg mod jewels instead of triple dmg jewels. otherwise you are stuck with around 5k life which is a bit too low i feel.

The deadeye pierce node makes Power Siphon unable to do chains or anything else because pierce always comes first. additionally piercing projectiles don't auto-aim after piercing, so the chances of hitting multiple enemies per projectile are not very high compared to let's say KB where you trigger explosions on every hit and clear them anyways.

Another small thing: while power charges scale very well with PS it is still subpar in point to point efficiency compared to other nodes like Throatseeker or another jewel socket. As a wander i would always aim for at least 7 sockets. those flat damage rolls are just too good to pass up and you need the flat life on a right side build to get to decent life levels.

other than that, it is usally better to focus on lightning damage as main source because you could use penetration support in your setup instead of let's say added cold. your damage will greatly benefit especially versus bosses. atm your build can barely get to 125k dps VS shaper and friends, which is too low to reliably clear them or other red map bosses / elder.

lastly, think about incorporating an Esh's Mirror if you have the moneys. The clear speed increase it provides is actually crazy.

I'm testing a similar build and I'm using point blank, your clear damage is good when you improve your gear, the problem will be single, and PB help on that. Waht is our opinion on that?

Nice guide keep the good work.

You can check my char in Incursion.

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EpicPureGamer wrote:

I'm testing a similar build and I'm using point blank, your clear damage is good when you improve your gear, the problem will be single, and PB help on that. Waht is our opinion on that?

Nice guide keep the good work.

You can check my char in Incursion.

VERY interesting. My planned build got to around 400k shaper dps which seems just a bit too low for my taste. The clear speed side went with upwards of 500k chain dps. which seems rather much!

So i think i will rework the tree slightly to incorporate Point Blank too bringing ST shaper dps up to ~620k which seems MUCH more workable.

Sure the clear dps will suffer a lot but honestly i cannot see this being a problem with a chain vaal power siphon setup. that shit just farms!

I am currently running Power Siphon and I am not really happy with it.
I have run half a dozen Wanders with KB/Barrage in the past and all of them felt more powerful than this build. I am still going with it because I want to see if I just need to get used to it.
Check my profile, my current Character is named: FourFoxSakes (watch the spelling), a Harbinger Power Siphon wander was Iamvaal - if you want to see a classic wander that could almost kill Shaper and killed red Elder with ease that would be the character SSFtho (level 95)
So yeah I guess I can say something on the matter:

- Power siphon clears a felt 70% of the time faster than Kinetic Blast (KB) I know I don't have a good 5l, let alone a 6l. But I have played KB wanders on crappy 4l and they felt better. Power Siphon shines at clearing huge groups in open areas. You run maps like Dunes or Jungle Valley with it and you are fine (even Underground Sea is fine), But a Waste Pool is just better with KB
- You still need a 6l barrage to single target. Or a 5l on gloves with slower projectiles works as well I guess. BUT KB can kill bosses that are against a wall sooooooo much faster. Even with crap gear.
- Vaal Power Siphon culls and clears in all directions - but other than that its not really better. The Cull is most useful on bosses, so linking a Culling strike with your Golem does the same thing.

I am still playing it for now - at least until I have level 20 gems on it, after that I might switch to kinetic Blast again, and maybe keep V-PS as a 4link for clearing like I did in Harbinger.

Okay now to your build:
The gear is fine, the tree could use some work I think. You take "Acrobatics" so there's little use of the life+ES wheel that you take - same goes for all the increased mana.
I am not sure if going for Power Charges is that much of a change. Its an AOE clearer that is used with chaining. So in all of these chains there is at least one crit happening that is going off and killing something - then releasing herald of ice and exploding the whole pack.
I'd say go for frenzy charges instead because of the faster attacks (that also help your barrage). As far as I have played now I feel 3 power charges is enough.
The Ascendancy works if you don't use chain. I heavily urge you to chain tho. Piercing works for leveling. In endgame you are thirsting to clear large areas and chains travel to the next group as well. Some bosses spawn minions and you can chain of them. Pierce does not help you a lot in endgame. Meaning you go ricochet, endless munitions and either Gathering winds for defense or fast and deadly for offense.

Forces of Nature and Revenge of the Hunted are nice, but you need to travel a lot for it. Heartseeker for example should give you more damage than Forces of Nature - without 2 traveling points. And then Revenge of the Hunted is kinda pointless as well. But you can do it like that if you really want to. Its a tanky option. Overall I tried a lot with the classic wander tree and it is really cookie cut as it is. Doing things like Force of Nature, Heart and Soul, Melding is really unorthodox and probably not better. However if you feel better doing it then go for it.
Btw - if you need int (which you probably do) then take the jewel above Blood Drinker from the right side. Unless you dont take nullification.
Nullification is debatable. yes you get life and resists, but its one additional travel node. I take it a lot of the time because I am lazy and its really good while leveling because it helps you with resists. But endgame its not really that good I feel.


You should also think about a Queen of the Forest (defensive + movement) or Inpulsa (more damage) chest.
Starkonja or Rats nest helm
Wake of Destruction boots are also cheap if you need more damage (which you probably don't because Deadeye)

5l PS:
Power Siphon (+Vaal) - Ele Dmg with attacks - Added Lightning - Lightning penetration - Chaining
The 6th slot is any of these:
Inc crit chance
Inc crit multi

I cannot recommend using Onslaught or faster attacks or any other added cold, fire whatever damage. Your tree pushes mainly lightning damage so stick to that.
Onslaught can be procced by Herald of Ice if you need it. thats a 4l with a curse on hit.
Blood Rage gives you attack speed and the 0.4% life leech should be enough to counter that. (linked with CWDT - IC - inc duration thats another 4l)
Slower Projectiles makes it a bit too slow for my taste.

I have experimented with Herald of Thunder - but you need the Herald of Ice explosion to actually clear a group. With herald of thunder a few enemies will remain standing and that costs time.


Prismweave is a nice belt - if you are a pathfinder and your flasks are up or just for leveling its fine. for Bossing a stygian vise is better if you have proper abyss jewels.

Sacrificial heart - I haven't tried but I don't see it being that useful.
you don't need mana regen that bad because you leech it and you usually have some regen on the tree.
you don't need the movement speed because you should be pathfinder
you don't need the power charge because the vaal skill itself gives you a power charge for each killed enemy. and thats like 30 power charges or 50 depending on the area.
The added flat damages are nice BUT
any rare with lets say:
60 life
+x lightning damage or +x% elemental damage with attacks
+1-70 or whatever t1 or t2 lightning damage is
+ maybe a resist or two
+ Strength Int implicit because yeah you need that to free up a passive
would be a billion times better. The flat lightning damage is the most important thing. The +lightning +ele damage modifier the next. It could even have crit on it or mana regen!


Overall PS works as a build. at least for yellow maps - but it should be the same in red maps. The boss damage however is bad. I mean, with a Barrage/KB wander you probably don't farm shaper. Unless you throw a ton of currency into it. But I feel that with Power Siphon you can kill a lot less bosses on maps because KB does a ton of damage once there is a wall in the map.
I am playing PS because it feels different, but KB was slightly more fun.
Also I am doing a weird phys>lightning conversion at the moment. But I don't lose too much damage compared to a piscators the damage is slightly lower but not that much. and hey - its fun.


But don't let me stop you making a guide for Power Siphon. Maybe I am just too used to KB to learn new tricks :D


TLDR;
A Power Siphon build is the same as a Kinetic Blast wander build. Switch KB with PS (VaalPS) and switch GMP with Chaining. Boom done.


Update:
I finally got superannoyed with power siphon and switched to kinetic blast. KB is smoother to play. PS clears some groups faster but KB can kill bosses on most maps I farm - can also kill Elder relatively easy. And the damage feels easier to obtain with Kinetic Blast.
I loved PS during harbinger when you could add it on top of a KB/Barrage setup and use it to clear open areas with a few groups. But now it just feels weak. GGG said they tried to put it on par with KB and that it almost was. well it is - almost. And that's why I don't play it. It was superfun for leveling though! Especially since you can use it at level 12 and you can use a poets pen at 12 which has high phys damage that you can easily convert with a few uniques into cold or lightning.

Maybe I'll have to switch Ice Bite out for Chain and see how it works. I have slight concerns about the Less Modifiers, but oh well.

Pathfinder doesn't have Tailwind or free chain. I want those.

If Pierce does feel bad with PS, then I guess double accuracy is where I want to be to hit 95% hit chance.

EDIT: Probably because I was doing an indoor map, but Chain gem ontop of Deadeye Chain feels bad.

EDIT2: Feels pretty good in outdoor maps (chain+3)

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JeansJoe wrote:

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Interesting read. I played some KB wanders in the past too and share your feelings about it.

Power Siphon feels indeed a bit weaker than the classic KB/Barrage combo. But i think it has some advantages too:

* auto aiming - this is a really good quality of life. You shoot in a random direction and your auto-aim + chain takes care of the rest.
* you don't need power charge on crit somewhere to gain PCharges or rely on on-kill assassins mark which is not bad at all
* cull in-built is great
* your clear is very consistent because you need no walls to deal full damage. indoors your chains can often travel around corners and clear further which is very comfortable
* (pro/con) PS does not synergize with Barrage at all, so it is not advised to use it, freeing a few sockets but making ST a problem
* PS doesn't profit that much from extra projectiles and doesn't have any area making dying sun completely unnecessary (and therefore dropping the build cost substantially). Same with Barrage enchant.
* you don't have to play pathfinder because you don't rely on flasks as much. therefore you can run big deeps ascendancies like deadeye / raider / elementalist. you could probably make an inquisitor work too but that would be another build i think going for MoM and that kind of stuff.
* remember the frequent reddit posts about incursions being so deadly because a million chaos bolts get shot at you the moment you enter the thing? PS will never have that problem: you enter incursion, you press VPS, profit...everything's dead and you start with 20sec on the timer instead of 10.

i reached lvl 83 now playing yellow maps and it is still a VERY strong build. is it stronger than a KB wander? no. But is it good enough to play everything so far? hell yeah!

in the end the clearspeed of a well geared KB wander compared to a well geared PS wander should not be hugely different: both builds kill entire screens of mobs at once while moving extremely fast. the only noticable difference is that KB wanders can delete bosses under certain circumstances while power siphons need decoy totem, gem swaps and more time for the same.

If you want to take PS to real endgame it would probably be wise to get yourself a vaal breach gem and pop that on the boss. that, paired with esh's mirror, should defínitly be enough deeps to bring down even the harder bosses.

(and on a sidenote, the new PS looks fu...ng amazing! KB cannot compare with that visual goodness at all)

I posted my guide on here earlier today. PS is definitely viable and outperforms KB in a lot of scenarios. I see a lot of people dismissing it without trying it and just going off their guts and past knowledge of "but those explosions can't be BEAT". They can.

First look at this and here is what i like:


Im looking for a build that i can use to reach lvl 100 for the first time. Im planning to chain farm T11 shaped underground sea, with or without killing the boss. Is this a good mindless build to use for such purposes? My requirements are as below

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Dreadnought wrote:

I posted my guide on here earlier today. PS is definitely viable and outperforms KB in a lot of scenarios. I see a lot of people dismissing it without trying it and just going off their guts and past knowledge of "but those explosions can't be BEAT". They can.

I don't dismiss it - I played it. It's fun. But not for me.
I've checked out your guide and it looks really solid! good job!

I've also checked out the videos and they show exactly what I experienced when playing PS. You cast it at a group and there are one or two enemies remaining, and that just freaks me out. I don't want that and that's why I don't play PS. But that's not a bad thing. I hate totem builds because I want to wield the power in my hands and not just place things that have power. I don't like a lot of skills actually - and Power Siphon is still one of the skills that I really like, just not as much as KB.
I mean you killed shaper and everything on your build without a huge sweat - which means it's 100% a viable build. It's just not for me.

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Im looking for a build that i can use to reach lvl 100 for the first time. Im planning to chain farm T11 shaped underground sea, with or without killing the boss. Is this a good mindless build to use for such purposes? My requirements are as below

If you want to get level 100 with magic find there are better options than PS. At least I think so.
Dreadnought's build is really nice, but I see that a lot of single monsters remain alive. Also bosses take relatively long.
When you farm experience you go for maps that suit your character. I guess for PS an open area map like Dunes would be perfect. With chaining you can hit a lot of enemies and clear fast.

People run Underground Sea because it has insane density - but here is what it also has: walls. Kinetic Blast lives of walls. So in my opinion running Underground Sea with PS would take you longer than running it with KB. You don't even need a Barrage 4 link because you can kill the boss with KB. Same goes for Waste Pool. And it's really easy to MF with KB. Theres a Deadeye guide for this. In the end you can just experiment with it. use the PS setup and use the KB setup. Run 10 or 20 Maps in one run and record the time. I bet that KB is faster. Clearing the bossroom is important on Underground Sea because a lot of times a pack will spawn in there.

OP's leveling guide on 4 alch works. I actually only used 3 alch, 1 each for 2 storm prisons, 1 for prismweave. Power Siphon did blast through the content after getting chain in act 4. Bossing was a huge pain, i ended up joining parties for faster bossing. Definitely decent for leveling up till you get piscator's at lvl 65

I tried a few setups on blood aqueducts


In the end i gave up on using my vps. I choose the middle ground of using KB + GMP + Pierce + Knockback. Pierce helps reach the pesky "Allies do not die" totems/rares. Knockback helps me keep enemies away from me (farshot bonus damage???) and also push bosses to the walls. Knockback support is sort of the lazy 6th link so we dont need any extra effort to position bosses.

Build is good. In my opinion it is the next best skill to use for wander mobbing after kinetic blast.