[3.5]FJTHEBEAST| DW Nebuloch Chieftain Molten Strike |90% Dmg Mitigation|9M Shaper DPS| All content

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azuz22 wrote:

Any changes for Betrayal in this build i should be aware of so far?
Seems interesting enough for a league starter.

I am still waiting for the new passive skill tree and for more unique/veiled mods reveals to see if any thing should be updated.

I am also willing to post 4 versions of the build (one focused on bossing with Abyssus, one focused on map clearing with Devoto's Devosion, one focused on tankiness with The formless Inferno, and one for the juggernaut)

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fjtheknight wrote:

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azuz22 wrote:

Any changes for Betrayal in this build i should be aware of so far?
Seems interesting enough for a league starter.

I am still waiting for the new passive skill tree and for more unique/veiled mods reveals to see if any thing should be updated.

I am also willing to post 4 versions of the build (one focused on bossing with Abyssus, one focused on map clearing with Devoto's Devosion, one focused on tankiness with The formless Inferno, and one for the juggernaut)

Right. I've been watching Alkaizerx playing the juggernaut copy of this same (similar? dual nebuloch) build and it looked fun. Not to mention i've never played Chieftain. Will definitely give it a shot.

You can probably have more variation with the veiled mods, in terms of more end charges for example?

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azuz22 wrote:

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fjtheknight wrote:

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azuz22 wrote:

Any changes for Betrayal in this build i should be aware of so far?
Seems interesting enough for a league starter.

I am still waiting for the new passive skill tree and for more unique/veiled mods reveals to see if any thing should be updated.

I am also willing to post 4 versions of the build (one focused on bossing with Abyssus, one focused on map clearing with Devoto's Devosion, one focused on tankiness with The formless Inferno, and one for the juggernaut)

Right. I've been watching Alkaizerx playing the juggernaut copy of this same (similar? dual nebuloch) build and it looked fun. Not to mention i've never played Chieftain. Will definitely give it a shot.

You can probably have more variation with the veiled mods, in terms of more end charges for example?

I think that the veiled mod for charges is "+1 to minimum charges" so it shouldn't increase your max charges. Maybe "+1 to minimum endurance charges" means you can't have less than 1 EC (even avter you cast immortal call for example).

In general, the jugg version is a little bit more tanky and has better ec generation, however the chief version has more damage (20%-40%) and is easier to build (less expensive and more affordable items) while having almost the same tankiness.

Just read the patch notes. It looks worse then it actually is.

Our topend ball count has been reduced from 10 to 7, while have 30% less damage instead of 40% less damage.

At the topend we will be dealing about ~81.6% of the damage we were dealing pre-patch. So basically ~18.4% less damage overall. Because they chose ball-count instead of a pure numbers nerf, we will also have ~18.4% less clear speed overall as well, which kind of hurts alot due to the already slow clearspeed of MS.

Moltenstrike will still be above and beyond the best ability to use for bossfights and highend trash in t16 maps with lots of mods, however for early game leveling and general clear just use consecrated path and, depending on how strong it is, tectonic slam.

tectonic slam might be amazing for clear, especially with the helm enchant and we have plenty of endurance charges to spare and it also gets us to the 100% mark of converted phys to fire. It really depends on how big the AE is without proccing the endurance charge consumption.

Nebuloch should be untouched, I don't think its droprate will be changed as it was already in a sort of hard-to-obtain spot of requiring you to kill yellow elder. If it is though and nebulochs price skyrockets because of every other statstick being significantly worse/ it's droprate is significantly lowered this build will be in a very tough spot. Nebuloch is sort of the saving grace of playing chieftan, and pre-nebuloch, jugg is a very clear winner in terms of survivability by a very large margin. I'm not saying go jugg to be safe, but if you wanted to be gaurenteed not to be screwed over by hidden changes, jugg would be the obvious choice.

Thank you very much for raising these points!

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grimchip wrote:

Just read the patch notes. It looks worse then it actually is.

Our topend ball count has been reduced from 10 to 7, while have 30% less damage instead of 40% less damage.

At the topend we will be dealing about ~81.6% of the damage we were dealing pre-patch. So basically ~18.4% less damage overall. Because they chose ball-count instead of a pure numbers nerf, we will also have ~18.4% less clear speed overall as well, which kind of hurts alot due to the already slow clearspeed of MS.

Don't forget that the damage is buffed from 147% to 161% at level 20. Let's say we have a base damage of 100 per second:
- melee: 161 dps
- balls: 161 * 0.7 * 7 = 789 dps
- total: 950
- total with Dying Sun : 1175

old values:
- melee: 147 dps
- balls: 147 * 0.6 * 10 = 882 dps
- total: 1029
- total with Dying Sun : 1205

=> % nerf = 100*(old-new)/old = 7.7%
=> % nerf with DS = 100*(old-new)/old = 2.5%

So it is not as bad as it seems.

Other than that, I agree with every thing you said. I think this nerf is in favor of this build. The nerf targeted the "Life gain on hit" molten strike builds, and this means they are now less viable, while MS builds that focus on life leech like this one will be more viable.

Edit: don't forget that we have one more free jewel slot. That means at least 3% more damage, and 2% more life, with resistances or any other useful stat

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fjtheknight wrote:

Thank you very much for raising these points!

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grimchip wrote:

Just read the patch notes. It looks worse then it actually is.

Our topend ball count has been reduced from 10 to 7, while have 30% less damage instead of 40% less damage.

At the topend we will be dealing about ~81.6% of the damage we were dealing pre-patch. So basically ~18.4% less damage overall. Because they chose ball-count instead of a pure numbers nerf, we will also have ~18.4% less clear speed overall as well, which kind of hurts alot due to the already slow clearspeed of MS.

Don't forget that the damage is buffed from 147% to 161% at level 20. Let's say we have a base damage of 100 per second:
- melee: 161 dps
- balls: 161 * 0.7 * 7 = 789 dps
- total: 950
- total with Dying Sun : 1175

old values:
- melee: 147 dps
- balls: 147 * 0.6 * 10 = 882 dps
- total: 1029
- total with Dying Sun : 1205

=> % nerf = 100*(old-new)/old = 7.7%
=> % nerf with DS = 100*(old-new)/old = 2.5%

So it is not as bad as it seems.

Other than that, I agree with every thing you said. I think this nerf is in favor of this build. The nerf targeted the "Life gain on hit" molten strike builds, and this means they are now less viable, while MS builds that focus on life leech like this one will be more viable.

yeah I completely forgot the balls are a percentage of the melee hit. You're absolutely correct. If you can include dying sun in your build the nerf is almost nonexistant.

The only scary thing is I fear nebuloch may be very difficult to obtain early on. It was better then everything else for jugg/chieftan before and now it's REALLY better then everything else.

jugg was left untouched and was already sort of popular for dual wield. Now will all the slayer/gladiator/ascendant/pathfinder (insert ascendancy that used dual wield) players migrate over to jugg and use nebuloch with their favourite skill? Idk.

Maybe people will just abandon dual wield altogether and forget nebuloch exists. Again I'm not completely sure.

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grimchip wrote:

yeah I completely forgot the balls are a percentage of the melee hit. You're absolutely correct. If you can include dying sun in your build the nerf is almost nonexistant.

The only scary thing is I fear nebuloch may be very difficult to obtain early on. It was better then everything else for jugg/chieftan before and now it's REALLY better then everything else.

jugg was left untouched and was already sort of popular for dual wield. Now will all the slayer/gladiator/ascendant/pathfinder (insert ascendancy that used dual wield) players migrate over to jugg and use nebuloch with their favourite skill? Idk.

Maybe people will just abandon dual wield altogether and forget nebuloch exists. Again I'm not completely sure.

Double corruption is also back so we will probably end up with more dps than previous leagues, but that also means that Nebuloch will be more rare. Grelwood Shank and Beltimber Blade got buffed so probably more people will be playing jugg MS with GS so less Nebuloch builds. Let's just wait and see :)

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fjtheknight wrote:

Double corruption is also back so we will probably end up with more dps than previous leagues, but that also means that Nebuloch will be more rare. Grelwood Shank and Beltimber Blade got buffed so probably more people will be playing jugg MS with GS so less Nebuloch builds. Let's just wait and see :)

yes and as a benchmark, nebuloch was available in delve by the 3rd day and started at 26c and went down from there. So if it's not available by the 3rd day and/or it's more expensive then 26c, we'll know somethings up.

hey! this build still work? and grimchip im u fan! itry mirror u build to make all contend! xD ! please tell me what build u use in this league \o

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zakedarkex wrote:

hey! this build still work? and grimchip im u fan! itry mirror u build to make all contend! xD ! please tell me what build u use in this league \o

Thanks for the compliments!

First I want to say that this build is very viable, the nerfs to molten strike don't affect it at all, it's barely a 5% damage nerf. I believe midleague this build is extremely strong and definitely one of the top builds out there.

Unfortunately I won't be using this build as my league starter. There are several reasons.

1. We are in an awkward position with the nerfs to dual wield before we obtain nebuloch (which shouldn't be available until day 2-3 of the league). Either maintaining two high damage weapons and not having a statstick will make things more difficult then before or using a two hander will be very slow and force us to spend respec points when we obtain nebuloch. The early game was slow for chieftan and is even slower now that our "clear" skills (tectonic slam, consecrated path, sunder etc) will require two viable weapons with no offhand damage support or the incredibly slow 2h's.

2. the leap slam change. Leap slam was already slower early on and is now anywhere from 5-30% slower depending on the speed of your weapon. All this change did was make leap slam worse overall and decrease how good it was with items like brightbeak.

3. They made no mention of nebulochs rarity. I suspect its rarity will remain unchanged, however because they did not clarify, there is a small chance it gets moved up to red tier elder or some other shenanigans that make it harder to obtain. This is just a risk i don't want to take.

4.arc mines. Currently arc mines is so incredibly powerful it outscales almost every other build in the game. traps/mines are RIDICULOUSLY strong. You can reach 1m shaper dps with next to no investment. like 1-2 ex or less. This build takes mines and then combines with a ridiculous clear speed ability called arc that also does amazing single target with mines. Sabatoeur arc mines is currently the build with no weaknesses. It's the fastest for leveling, it requires basically no gear to do 99% of the content and has survivability that is very close to this chieftan ms build via sab's talents, MoM and tinkerskin.

I will be playing arc mines as a sab for my starter and probably switch midleague to chieftan ms with tectonic slam as my clear ability.

it hurts because I really wanted to play this build as my starter, but the changes to dual wield and leap slam and the lack of changes to arc mines cannot be ignored.