[3.9] Pure Phys Skeletons & Friends Necromancer — Beginner/SSF/Budget Build

"

joe7dust wrote:

"

iLL3aT wrote:

"

HookTurn wrote:

Has anyone theory crafted the BIS jewel cluster for physical damage skeles?

I posted this in my Cold Skellies guide, but it's probably more relevant to you guys.

"Single large cluster jewel - renewal, rotting claws (optional but expensive third: call to the slaughter): two medium jewels: Both with renewal, one with Blessed rebirth, and one with Feasting fiends. Either two fettle smalls, or just generic ghastlys."

~28% more multiplier on total damage from rotten claws - outside of aura nodes, it's the most broken new node. Renewal is just a big amount of damage (8-9.5% depending on how much you already have) - and there are three instances here, bringing you from 5% double damage chance to 35% - another ~28% more. The other nodes are support - invulnerability for 4 seconds after summoning, and then leech up to 20% of skellie max life afterwards.

Crit is a trap for phys skellies since you won't have enough multi from stacking hatred/crit jewels on mediums. See my cold skellie guide page 27 for my write up. I wouldn't bother with a second cluster for phys skellies since rotting claws #2 would only be 11% more and renewal 4-6 would only be 22% more.

Your comment intrigues me because I haven't seen anyone really dive into the math behind summoner cluster jewels like you have.

What do you think of my choice for SRS/zombies/spectre/golem?

Enemies weren't long lived at the time I bought this, so didn't really consider impale to be a good choice. Now that they live longer, something like this that applies a debuff might actually be a good choice. I use the helm that makes SRS always ignite so that one notable which deals extra against ignited enemies seems pretty good.

No comment?

I picked this build with metamorph, and have since kept it but with decent changes to shift it to an impale Vaal skele build.

https://pastebin.com/qNecgqZT

Sirus A8, easy
T16 delirium, easy
T16 100%, not bad, respect the mobs (but its 100%, you want cheese, go play cheese)
a couple guardian runs left for 40/40

My gear is pretty top tier at this point, but i was crushing the above with average gear

"

joe7dust wrote:

Your comment intrigues me because I haven't seen anyone really dive into the math behind summoner cluster jewels like you have.

What do you think of my choice for SRS/zombies/spectre/golem?

Enemies weren't long lived at the time I bought this, so didn't really consider impale to be a good choice. Now that they live longer, something like this that applies a debuff might actually be a good choice. I use the helm that makes SRS always ignite so that one notable which deals extra against ignited enemies seems pretty good.

No comment?[/quote]

Hey, sorry - I've been busy and did not have a chance to follow this thread. Regarding jewels, you definitely want two jewel sockets, so a budget one would be renewal/rotten claws/two jewel sockets. A third notable like call to the slaughter (or vicious bites as sufficxes) costs quite a bit of money (my most recent jewel purchase of vicious bites, renewal, rotten claws for my cold build cost 5 ex - only reason I needed rotten claws was to save one skill point...). If you are investing into cluster jewels, the start up cost is the expensive 3-4 points leading up to it, so if you are not fully utilizing mediums/smalls/1 point jewel sockets, you are missing out on a lot of damage/utility/life at a very low point cost. Every build wants at least one cluster jewel though - some of the minion clusters on the tree are pretty bad and we only took them because we had no better option.

You definitely want impale though - highest damage multiplier support gem by a long shot, and useful for the tanky guys in delirium.

To possibly correct myself, crit may not be a trap for phys skellies, but to make it work is very expensive. I have some theorycrafting in mind but no time to put it into PoB to see the results yet.

Skellies are definitely more than fine though - a lot harder to start up, but with gear/levels becomes extremely strong.

"

xxp0loxx wrote:

I picked this build with metamorph, and have since kept it but with decent changes to shift it to an impale Vaal skele build.

https://pastebin.com/qNecgqZT

Sirus A8, easy
T16 delirium, easy
100%, not bad (but its 100%, you want cheese, go play cheese)
a couple guardian runs left for 40/40

My gear is pretty top tier at this point, but i was crushing the above with average gear

I was looking for a impale varient so thanks for this. One question, in pob you have MoM with very little unreserved mana. Is there something i'm missing?

I use it because why not, even with 3-600 mana avail. For tougher maps ill drop Avian aspect to free up 5-600 mana for a little buffer. other than that, its a minimal addition to the build. but has saved me countless of times. Mana is also readily available on most the gears i would find/buy

That said, i am NOT a master theorycrafter on builds. if you know of a much better use of the skills, plz lmk

I wish PoB accurately calc'd impale for this build, my numbers are undoubtedly much much higher than shown.

Could anyone look at my build and tell me if Im doing everything right ?

https://pastebin.com/GPP3WidR

Right now my minions have 100% impale chance which comes from impale support, dread banner and cluster jewels. Am I getting it right ? Also dps shown in POB does not include impale dps ? Is there any way to calculate impale dps for minions ?

"

xxp0loxx wrote:

I picked this build with metamorph, and have since kept it but with decent changes to shift it to an impale Vaal skele build.

https://pastebin.com/qNecgqZT

Sirus A8, easy
T16 delirium, easy
T16 100%, not bad, respect the mobs (but its 100%, you want cheese, go play cheese)
a couple guardian runs left for 40/40

My gear is pretty top tier at this point, but i was crushing the above with average gear

What are you using for Spectres?
You think pride is better than Hatred?
Do you feel awakened Melee Splash is better in general than multi strike? or do you swap them ever?
Thanks! T

"

iLL3aT wrote:

Hey, sorry - I've been busy and did not have a chance to follow this thread. Regarding jewels, you definitely want two jewel sockets, so a budget one would be renewal/rotten claws/two jewel sockets. A third notable like call to the slaughter (or vicious bites as sufficxes) costs quite a bit of money (my most recent jewel purchase of vicious bites, renewal, rotten claws for my cold build cost 5 ex - only reason I needed rotten claws was to save one skill point...). If you are investing into cluster jewels, the start up cost is the expensive 3-4 points leading up to it, so if you are not fully utilizing mediums/smalls/1 point jewel sockets, you are missing out on a lot of damage/utility/life at a very low point cost. Every build wants at least one cluster jewel though - some of the minion clusters on the tree are pretty bad and we only took them because we had no better option.

You definitely want impale though - highest damage multiplier support gem by a long shot, and useful for the tanky guys in delirium.

To possibly correct myself, crit may not be a trap for phys skellies, but to make it work is very expensive. I have some theorycrafting in mind but no time to put it into PoB to see the results yet.

Skellies are definitely more than fine though - a lot harder to start up, but with gear/levels becomes extremely strong.

Have been thinking about jumping to your cold version. How would you compare the cold versus this impale version damage wise in general? About the same, a little more, or alot more? Thanks, T

Hey Tallion99,

I'll answer all your questions from my opinion:

Spectres: Probably 2 Carnage Chieftains, 1 Merveil's Retainer, and 1 Arena Master for non-crit setups

Pride: Better than hatred unless you're going full cold. Pride is a 20-40% more multiplier and you get to use brutality. Hatred for hybrid builds: Hatred is about a 30% more multiplier, however, unless you path of Elemental Equilibrium, the enemy has 50 cold resist and thus hatred is half of that. The real cost would be downgrading from brutality to deathmark (-14%), and three points on the tree (-6%ish damage). Phys skeletons should stick to pride.

Melee Splash: Always use splash while mapping - it doubles your clear speed if not more. Try a hard, super juiced map with splash vs multistrike: you'll see the difference right away. I use splash for everything, and only switch to multi for Sirus (even with 80+ kills, still sometimes a BS fight, so I want it done ASAP).

Cold: Haven't got that far on the comparisons yet. Cold is a way better mapper since it freezes most mobs, and some bosses, including (with enough damage) conquerors and wave 15 Omniphobia. It also has easier access to crit builds, since aura nodes have both vengeful commander and precise commander. Phys is cheaper to build and easier to play though, and still commands very respectable numbers. I'm adding a phys variant to my guide later.

If you want to stick with phys, try one of the PoBs I've theorycrafted:

One cluster: https://pastebin.com/Hs4gMRSQ
Two clusters + one megalomaniac: https://pastebin.com/gBatmU6P

The two cluster one will cost more money, but has higher DPS. The one cluster goes to soul of steel and has access to something like a 14,000 VMS vs ~6,000 from the two cluster. Otherwise they're pretty similar.

"

iLL3aT wrote:

Hey, sorry - I've been busy and did not have a chance to follow this thread. Regarding jewels, you definitely want two jewel sockets, so a budget one would be renewal/rotten claws/two jewel sockets. A third notable like call to the slaughter (or vicious bites as sufficxes) costs quite a bit of money (my most recent jewel purchase of vicious bites, renewal, rotten claws for my cold build cost 5 ex - only reason I needed rotten claws was to save one skill point...). If you are investing into cluster jewels, the start up cost is the expensive 3-4 points leading up to it, so if you are not fully utilizing mediums/smalls/1 point jewel sockets, you are missing out on a lot of damage/utility/life at a very low point cost. Every build wants at least one cluster jewel though - some of the minion clusters on the tree are pretty bad and we only took them because we had no better option.

You definitely want impale though - highest damage multiplier support gem by a long shot, and useful for the tanky guys in delirium.

To possibly correct myself, crit may not be a trap for phys skellies, but to make it work is very expensive. I have some theorycrafting in mind but no time to put it into PoB to see the results yet.

Skellies are definitely more than fine though - a lot harder to start up, but with gear/levels becomes extremely strong.

Are you sure Rotten claws is even worth it? I plugged it into PoB and it added about as much as a 10% minion damage passive... And this calculation seems made with Impale always being up.. so likely even worse.