On Balance Feedback and Charge Changes

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Nephalim wrote:

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A better question is can you show a single build that does? Or does 3/3 and 3/3 p/f charge through coh ass mark + bloodrage constitute grievous abuse of the charge generation system.

Are you seriously saying people slapping on bloodrage to generate frenzy for "free" is overpowered or hurts diversity? Or using coh+ass mark to generate for "free" is overpowered or hurts diversity?

I didnt address your quote because raider gets 5 charges for free without any real investment and assassin gets 5. this isnt 3/3.

as for your other question where you move the goalposts, you should maybe re-read my post again because youre putting words in my mouth

here, Ill make it helpful for you tho: I said that getting rid of blindly slapping on more multipliers that work for virtually every build, is a good thing because it'll make other builds explore alternatives instead of grabbing the cheapest and most powerful investment.

maybe my crit frostblades raider now wont get no-brainer power charges and instead will venture into something else

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grepman wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

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A better question is can you show a single build that does? Or does 3/3 and 3/3 p/f charge through coh ass mark + bloodrage constitute grievous abuse of the charge generation system.

Are you seriously saying people slapping on bloodrage to generate frenzy for "free" is overpowered or hurts diversity? Or using coh+ass mark to generate for "free" is overpowered or hurts diversity?

I didnt address your quote because raider gets 5 charges for free without any real investment and assassin gets 5. this isnt 3/3.

as for your other question where you move the goalposts, you should maybe re-read my post again because youre putting words in my mouth

here, Ill make it helpful for you tho: I said that getting rid of blindly slapping on more multipliers that work for virtually every build, is a good thing because it'll make other builds explore alternatives instead of grabbing the cheapest and most powerful investment.

maybe my crit frostblades raider now wont get no-brainer power charges and instead will venture into something else

They just introduced like 10 gems that are essentially free multipliers though, so from that design standpoint it doesn't make alot of sense to nerf the Frenzy charges.

You guys are doing a great job. Please don't listen to Reddit.

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grepman wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

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A better question is can you show a single build that does? Or does 3/3 and 3/3 p/f charge through coh ass mark + bloodrage constitute grievous abuse of the charge generation system.

Are you seriously saying people slapping on bloodrage to generate frenzy for "free" is overpowered or hurts diversity? Or using coh+ass mark to generate for "free" is overpowered or hurts diversity?

I didnt address your quote because raider gets 5 charges for free without any real investment and assassin gets 5. this isnt 3/3.

as for your other question where you move the goalposts, you should maybe re-read my post again because youre putting words in my mouth

here, Ill make it helpful for you tho: I said that getting rid of blindly slapping on more multipliers that work for virtually every build, is a good thing because it'll make other builds explore alternatives instead of grabbing the cheapest and most powerful investment.

maybe my crit frostblades raider now wont get no-brainer power charges and instead will venture into something else

Getting power charges through coh and frenzy charges through bloodrage are irrelevant where it counts - vs the bosses.

This is a wild assumption but I have a feeling you've never actually done end game bosses or not very often if you actually think frenzy and power charges are actually powerful when they only apply to non bosses. This is the reason curses are in such a horrible place even before the iaoe nerfs of 2.6.

If you want to invest the socket, aura reservation and degen to get a buff so you can kill non boss mobs slightly faster, that is your choice but dont say doing constitutes overpowered use of charges or it somehow hurts build diversity.

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NessOnett8 wrote:

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grepman wrote:

24% of berserkers alone in legacy softcore levels 90-100 use blood rage (which, may I remind, gives you frenzies on kill)

What? A whopping 24%?!? That's totally overbearing and abusive. Because you claimed quite clearly it was something "Everyone did" but you can barely find less than a quarter of a single class? Hmmm. But again...that's literally an investment. And fun fact: almost all of them are using attacking skills(because spell zerkers didn't do this) meaning they are completely unaffected by this.

Show me SPELL CASTERS who are using frenzy charges. And show me the "Vast majority"(you claimed everyone did, so even finding a majority should be super easy). Or you can just admit the FACT that it was a super niche thing that people occasionally did as an option and was far from the norm.

as expected, no admittance of your statement being pulled out of thin air and being plain wrong. yawn. at least own up to your mistake, be a man ffs. no one pulled your tongue to produce a fake number to make your point better. too bad you didnt know about site that actually tracks gem usage. tsk.

and now you're moving the goalposts

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And show me the "Vast majority"(you claimed everyone did, so even finding a majority should be super easy).

I never said everyone did, nor did I say something about vast majority. why are you imagining things ?

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grepman wrote:

raider gets 5 charges for free without any real investment

Yes, locking yourself into an ascendancy is "no investment"...this is surely a reasonable argument. It's about as little investment as a 6-link, or your chest slot. Dictating your ascendancy is a HUGE investment. And the fact that you think otherwise pretty much is the last nail in the coffin that you're not actually thinking about this in a coherent way. You're just on a personal vendetta will say anything no matter how ludicrous to 'prove' your point.

And it's hilarious that you talk about moving the goalposts after going from "This is something LITERALLY EVERYONE DOES ON EVERY BUILD" to "I can find this niche scenario where almost a quarter of some people do it sometimes, and those people won't be affected by this change at all"

The change to shock , I'm fine with it. Chill meuh... But the one about charge oh boy I could rent for hours on it. Don't even want to start rambling about it. Just revert it. I'll just state 3 quick reason.1)Tt kill diversitie 2)You shited on your new traper item. Except for caustic arrow trapper...and It might not even buff the cloud from i (I'm not sure about this one).3)Nerfed shadow+crit chance in tree and Power charge crit chance.Its gonna be soo hard to use crit on non crit specialised weapon.


Soo right now ppl that use atk gem got poison nerfed to the ground,trolled with the worse keynodes ever made that make bleed into a weird poison,crit nerfed.FLEESBLESSED

gotta have to make cheese berseker softcore build if not its gonna suck.

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Nephalim wrote:

Getting power charges through coh and frenzy charges through bloodrage are irrelevant where it counts - vs the bosses.

This is a wild assumption but I have a feeling you've never actually done end game bosses or not very often if you actually think frenzy and power charges are actually powerful when they only apply to non bosses.

youre moving goalposts to mars now. discussion was about builds that use both. never did you or anyone else made a qualifier of how many charges are generated. still, 5 frenzy charges = 20% more damage, which is non-diminishing return.

you have a funny feeling.
if thats so, I might or might not have a feeling youve never put down orb of orms + pcoc or used a raider or frenzy to sustain charges on bosses.

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grepman wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Getting power charges through coh and frenzy charges through bloodrage are irrelevant where it counts - vs the bosses.

This is a wild assumption but I have a feeling you've never actually done end game bosses or not very often if you actually think frenzy and power charges are actually powerful when they only apply to non bosses.

youre moving goalposts to mars now. discussion was about builds that use both. never did you or anyone else made a qualifier of how many charges are generated. still, 5 frenzy charges = 20% more damage, which is non-diminishing return.

you have a funny feeling.
if thats so, I might or might not have a feeling youve never put down orb of orms + pcoc or used a raider or frenzy to sustain charges on bosses.

Raider can generate frenzy in Boss room.
Bow users too with frenzy skill.

The only way to easy power charge generated with boss is OoS+ PCoC

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grepman wrote:

as expected, no admittance of your statement being pulled out of thin air and being plain wrong. yawn. at least own up to your mistake, be a man ffs. no one pulled your tongue to produce a fake number to make your point better. too bad you didnt know about site that actually tracks gem usage. tsk.

Except that I wasn't wrong. I said top100. You then decided to check the top ~10,000(which is not the top100) to imply that I was saying something I wasn't saying. You then argued against that thing that I never said to try and discredit me because you know you had no legitimate response to what I actually said.

This is a common propaganda technique known as a "strawman"...but I'm sure you already knew that considering how seamlessly you jumped to it as your first move.

Commonly it is followed up by a faux superiority and moralism...check. If you're gonna come at me, you best come correct.



It's obvious at this point given how many times you've blatantly lied and ignored the numbers to keep forcing this objectively wrong narrative that you aren't interested in facts or reality, so it's really not worth trying to explain to you how the world works. This change is bad. It's been thoroughly explained why it's bad. And the only people who defend it are those who(like you), want everything to be the same and only the same 3 cookie-cutter builds to ever be viable.