Kza has challenged you... Can you handle it?

I tried to get into HLD. I still fuck around with my lvl 28 golems but its hard to enjoy. I either 1 shot and smash people or I get offscreened by invis projectiles. When someone does tank me, its usually a CWDT tank that just frys the arena. I have been contemplating dumping a thousand exalts into HLD to see if its worth it but then everytime I just fuck around in sarn I think, "WTF is going on, how can anyone enjoy this?"

I can only imagine pvp at this point being something to fuck around with. Optimize your build for PvE and then hope your build can compete with enough builds in PvP to still be some fun. The amount of adjustments that need to be done is overwhelming. I feel like a HLD character either needs to be insanely well planned out with tons of currency dumped into it or abuse something broken and try to 1 shot the enemy before it can 1 shot you. If you are going to use all mirrored gear or close to mirrored gear just for pvp imo it wouldnt be worth it for PvP alone. Chances are your PvP build will never be even as close to as good as a optimized PvE build for clearing maps and shit, this is why it will stay something to just fuck around and do rather than take seriously : (

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MullaXul wrote:

You never balance PvP from the LLD perspective, that's partly where they started to go wrong.

Initially they made claims they could balance the two separately. Instead they balanced strictly based on LLD performance...the lack of experience, lack of actual effort by some players. Which created a not so clear vision of what was actual dominant and what was just being exploited on new players. During those seasons you had guys like Greenturd running around while bleeding constantly, not even making an effort to dispel it. Also using Temporal Chains + Puncture, which is retarded as well. I watched people try to face tank (they still do, because bad) Cyclone...ignoring the sheer fact it is countered by slows/bleed/bear traps/obstacles and does very minimal damage per hit if you're actually not standing in it with your dick in your hand. People consistently got frozen and instantly lost. It was a shit show and GGG saw it as true PvP.

Also not taking into account obvious "counter picks/plays". These are expected and an integral part of any competitive setting. They aren't bad if there is a legitimate answer to said counter pick via items,swaps,player ability. This game still doesn't quite have that down yet. For instance Lapiz will only play against someone when he somewhat counters them first. He's basically a pud fuck otherwise. Like when he played trapper against Grindcores melee in LLD then puffed up his faggy chest like he was godlike. Yes yes I know rain of arrows off hand, aoe, leap slam, arc +++ all break traps but its still a bad match up especially with the truly limited options LLD offers. When you're trying to prove points you should do so without counter picking in such an obvious way, then it holds weight.

You either balance separately or you focus on HLD/end game balance, leaving LLD to scavenge the left overs.

Here's the thing though, they CAN still balance both LLD and HLD separately but they chose not to. GGG half assed the entire thing by listening to the casual low tier players, completely ignoring those that actually knew wtf was going on at the highest level. If certain mechanics at the time were changed, like maybe tornado shot or molten strike getting less secondary proj at lower levels just for pvp, then maybe we could've had more variety and balance.

Instead we got some band aid 15-20% damage reductions, as if raw numbers were the driving point in PoE. I'm 100% certain they can't balance HLD if they can't even do LLD, or PvE. Expect to see caustic arrow nerfs if they ever decide to make a HLD season cuz LUL chaos resist noobs.

Much of what I saw happen with PvP balancing was this. People not really playing their main builds after they saw other people playing their main build and getting nerfed in testing. My build got crazy nerfed and so did a few others that were very unique and with no reason to nerf other than the obvious power it brought to pvp. It was a scary testing phase imo. I was fine with my build being nerfed into the ground because I thought everything else would be adjusted too.

My spectral throw dagger build was nerfed also partially due to PvE reasons but it all happened at the same time, so the changes were huge. A few other people playing similar builds as mine were outraged but were still optimistic that many changes would occur so maybe their build would still be viable. It seemed there was some kind of hierarchy, some individuals had more personal access to speak with the balance team and influence them. This caused many people to not wanna reveal the true power of their builds causing only superficial changes to the PvP meta.

TBH the balance should have been left mostly out of the players hands. Since everyone is secretly trying to keep their build in top tier. I was hoping GGG would spectate how people were using their builds, copy the build, and play the builds among the dev team for a less pvp communal bias balance. If they did what I hoped then I really didnt see much of it.

Oh man, ya I forgot about the - chaos resist guys during that season hahahaha.

Also Grindcore you're right, in HLD you either jump on the broken skill bandwagon. Or you have a build so planned out and versatile that it can compete enough versus the broken shit but really dominate the honest stuff. When you lose to stuff that's hilariously stupid like a CWS build or PvP skill with no reductions, you just move on laughing at the guys desperation/lameness. It's pointless to re-assess your build for it more then a few glances if any at all.

The worst atm in HLD would probably be glove enchants as a melee player. They literally kill you instantly without a visual animation at this range. You know when it happens though because you can hit a player initially from range to trigger it before you engage. This eliminates the problem for a few seconds but if they retreat and you don't keep repeating this process while they also attack you so you can safely get into melee range you will die the very first time you touch them....and they did absolutely nothing but unintentionally wait out a cool down trying to escape you haha. Things like this is why all the scrub melee play Lacerate now and everyone else is ranged by default.

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MullaXul wrote:

Oh man, ya I forgot about the - chaos resist guys during that season hahahaha.

Also Grindcore you're right, in HLD you either jump on the broken skill bandwagon. Or you have a build so planned out and versatile that it can compete enough versus the broken shit but really dominate the honest stuff. When you lose to stuff that's hilariously stupid like a CWS build or PvP skill with no reductions, you just move on laughing at the guys desperation/lameness. It's pointless to re-assess your build for it more then a few glances if any at all.

The worst atm in HLD would probably be glove enchants as a melee player. They literally kill you instantly without a visual animation at this range. You know when it happens though because you can hit a player initially from range to trigger it before you engage. This eliminates the problem for a few seconds but if they retreat and you don't keep repeating this process while they also attack you so you can safely get into melee range you will die the very first time you touch them....and they did absolutely nothing but unintentionally wait out a cool down trying to escape you haha. Things like this is why all the scrub melee play Lacerate now and everyone else is ranged by default.

Molten shell/tempest did that long before enchants(fuck with melee).

At least with molten shell you could go full Ele ala static strike to bypass it.

Before pathfinder existed, I surprised Shin with that when he bet me a 1off perfect Daresso Salute that he could beat me in a 1v1.



Still got the trophy to remind of a time before pathfinders lol

He might abuse the worst shit in the game, but at least he's a man of his word haha

challenge accepted Fishing man is coming for u

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If they ever work on PvP again they will not involve the public as much. They tried to be transparent last time and it failed horribly. IMO they should take the top builds off the leaderboards copy them and mess around with them. Obviously they wont know how to use the builds as well as the players creating them but they can definitely track the top 20 players and watch how they play so they can better understand.

PvP in this game is sooooooo complex. There is so much shit going on, GGG cant even understand without diving deep into it. The balance team needs to balance independent of players because players will always corrupt the balance in hopes for their build to come out on top(this has been my experience 100% in testing)
I feel like GGG has already been doing so. Lots of people think they implemented items within LLD range that are over powered and shouldnt exist. I think they did it on purpose and for good reason. Supplying items that nearly everyone can get helps balance the meta. Items such as t1 phys vagan daggers/swords, tora bleed t1 phys bows, +2 corrupted demigods, and so on REALLY FUCKED UP THE META. Now with +2 skins of the loyal, lycosidae, improved doomfletch and stormcloud, tempestuous steel, enchants and essences, there is so much more for people to compete with. They may not be the very best builds but they can definitely come into team games and compete. Right now uniques are so fkn good you can almost make an entire char with just uniques and have it be amazing in LLD. I have a char with almost all uniques aside from jewelry (the char is amazing too)

LLD is so close to being nearly perfect. HLD is far from it but has a purpose since everyone grinds gear for end game and it can be used for pvp(mostly). GGG should just implement a better Leo pvp system with either bench mods that can only be used in pvp, not pve, or vending high quality pvp items. The PvP premades should be t1 or t2 as well, they are unusable atm. Would be cool to see them do a point sysem with a menagerie of items that accumulate to a point total with different point limits similar to fallout tactics : )

Congrats to Dede for taking up my challenge and beating me 4-1! Enjoy the 10c prize!