Bit of good news (maybe?)

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Plexus, some people don't know how to grind for currency, play temp leagues, or trade up in this game, so they just abuse whatever bullshit meta they can while making sure everyone knows they are martyring themselves in order to get things nerfed. *rolls eyes*

I am one of those people who can t farm well or trade. I get currency in league farming alts to get 4-6ex max each leagues. My ghetto melee-ranged build worth 6 ex max right now haha.


I just think only playing the broken meta skills when you are already a good player push others to play those skills who are killing pvp in this game.

Totally agree bro

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Vhlad wrote:

I'm not sure if you realize how significant this change would be on player behavior in ctf. As soon as the trapper dies it will be balls to the wall flag rushing, no caution. And the super move speed builds will do 2 flag runs in the time it takes for you to revive. The longer tension-filled matches where you're inching forward feel much better IMO.

I agree. We had some CTF's last night with no trappers and the games were over in about a minute. Trappers and especially bear trappers add an element of strategy, patience, and teamwork to the games.

My uber tank (12k es, high regen, max block, 50% crit reduction) can get one shot off screen by bows, but one of Noah's bear traps where he's taken every trap node on the tree with 700% crit multi, still don't one shot me. Therefore I think bear trap damage certainly shouldn't be reduced any further.

In terms of holding power, I use level 26 bear traps with increased duration. The damage sucks and it only holds tankier life builds (Lib) for about 2 seconds, if I recall correctly. I think that's somewhat reasonable.

On another note, we found out last night that phase run allows you to still run while being bear trapped, albeit very slowly. Will have to test this further. *Edit: Tested this and it doesn't work. Not sure why Hyrri was walking in slow motion after being bear trapped.*

Let's be real here for a second.

Those of us who have played CTF should objectively agree with this.

Bear trap is an answer to speedsters, immortals and players like shin. When those players are NOT in the games, bear trap becomes quite clearly overpowered. This is as non biased as I can get for this.

If I switch to my other character (in this case a garbage DPS caster that I always try to switch to if there aren't any crazy flag runner builds in our rotation) and those T1 flag runners are in the game, you can be damn sure they're going to win every game easily. Not as a "good game". As a 1-2 minute stomp fest.


Concerning spawn kills, I 100% agree with rup that we shouldn't spawn in an area accessible to the enemy team and that area would have to be part of the actual map.

Also concerning spawn kills, every skill can do it. If the enemy team has wiped your team and they're all over your side of the map, you're gonna get spawn killed. Fuck, I get spawn killed by Myga and he's a melee. It's like people hear bear trap and see red. And nothing else matters.

I understand the power that bear trap brings and I do my best to switch to another character whenever match ups are even and a bear trapper isnt required. But bear trap (as glass cannon or as a supporting setup like firebitch's) definitely makes games more interesting when we have tons of T1 builds running around in CTF.

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Head_Less wrote:

Your fire totem is pretty impressive damage wise, it is sad you would prioritize skills who dominate the meta instead of making ones like the totem who are more original. I can t were the fun playing broken shit.

About the trap/death thing, I don t mind in ctf the trap stay in place if like Rupenus suggested crit is gone once dead but in sarn they should disapear completely.

Fire totem is a lot of fun and that build does 4 min lab runs without effort but for pvp totems just die too easily. They have no sticking power. They die instantly in chaos cloud because you cant increase totem chaos resist. They die passively and instantly to riposte, reckoning, vengeance, cwdt, and tempest shield because there's no pvp damage reduction vs totems.

All players need to do is put their back to a wall and spam tornado shot, lacerate, poison arrow, arc, or any aoe or high spread projectile and the level 26+ totems with max life will instantly die as soon as I place them. It wasn't always this bad but player damage has gone up a lot since the beginning of pvp.

There are other issues too. Totems grant flask charges and can be used to chain into me or proliferate, etc. There are AI problems, i.e. totems completely ignore SRS, while the SRS beats them to death. They have a short activation/AI wakeup range, that can't be increased no matter how high your investment in projectile speed. So they get outranged by melee skills like lacerate.

Another issue is, even if the totems became invincible, the AI does very poorly at hitting fast moving targets, like pathfinders. Players can run by flame totems, even outrun the projectile. And there are many hard counters that a flame totem can never kill, like aegis or mistress of sacrifice life on block (even if you stack BCR, a flame totem's many small hits will yield the opponent a net gain of es/life).

The last straw for me was tukohama war's herald in the chieftain ascendancy. I tested "totems reflect 8% of their maximum life as fire damage to nearby enemies when hit" and it turns out the range of "nearby" is so small in this case, that players can hit the totems with a melee weapon default attack and not receive any reflected damage. You basically need to attack from unarmed range without master of the arena for it to do anything.

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... some people don't know how to grind for currency, play temp leagues, or trade up in this game, so they just abuse whatever bullshit meta they can while making sure everyone knows they are martyring themselves in order to get things nerfed. *rolls eyes*

Sitting in sarn with spark really was a labor of love for the pvp community. I spent a couple months watching my totems get abused by other sparkers (especially voltaxic spark) before having enough and making my inquisitor sparker. And then people stopped saying learn to play and started saying how stupid OP it was. Some creative players made thorns counter builds that were effective but the "elite" players in all mirror gear just became enraged and swore at me. Such ego bruising, a few people are still swearing at me, months later.

But I helped get it fixed, whether people appreciate it or not.

If we just say skills are OP and don't use them GGG won't fix them. They'll look at their skill analytics and determine it's not a problem. They have to see high usage, or at least strong evidence of something being OP enough to lead to high usage once the community catches on. Which is why I don't care if players swap to EA while pretending to be melee, or that everyone and their grandma has cwdt/cod vortex or self cast vortex or a vortex trapper.

And really, compensating for lack of wealth/currency grind/up trading is an amusing direction to try to take this, given that the highest wealth players have been and still are abusing the crap out of EA, vortex, HoT, etc. If such players can actually afford to make some legit builds that are competitive, what's their excuse?

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Vhlad wrote:

And really, compensating for lack of wealth/currency grind/up trading is an amusing direction to try to take this, given that the highest wealth players have been and still are abusing the crap out of EA, vortex, HoT, etc. If such players can actually afford to make some legit builds that are competitive, what's their excuse?

Hey hey hey! Wow now there, boy!

Don't shift the blame to the rich EA/LA players. We're the problem here, got it?

Hahahaha vhlad, oh man. So brave... So courageous...

You could've stopped any time after the first week or two, and the outcome would have probably been the same. During Perandus league (where the majority of the players were) guess who was no1 on ladder almost all season standing in a corner? Spark (Zip). What about people leveling to 100 in under a week of play time in standard? Spark (Fyndel and comnpany). There were many more deciding factors.

Yes, many people were deeply annoyed by your 8hr+ per day spark antics, althought all I had to do was jump on your head once, as I'm sure you remember ;). Non-pvp'ers don't see you as someone who's exploiting something with purpose, they see that and go "PVP sucks, fuck pvp - this is what it's like." You need help realizing the moment your actions stop helping the community and start hurting it; It's fine to prove a point, but don't beat a dead horse. I would spend MINUTES per day in sarn with vortex to show people, while you would spend a whole work day in that bitch.

Our stupid EA offhands even with tree/jewel/gear synergy is not even on the same planet as the t1 10+jewel cheezers like jimi/gut/lib/balancedkappa/texas or even your and lapiz's now retired pantsless versions. I'd vendor my 6l +1 quill rain right this minute if EA would either get fixed or just disappear completely.

And please do know, everything's fine between us - you should know by now I just don't like beating around the bush ;)

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Firebrand76 wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

I'm not sure if you realize how significant this change would be on player behavior in ctf. As soon as the trapper dies it will be balls to the wall flag rushing, no caution. And the super move speed builds will do 2 flag runs in the time it takes for you to revive. The longer tension-filled matches where you're inching forward feel much better IMO.

I agree. We had some CTF's last night with no trappers and the games were over in about a minute. Trappers and especially bear trappers add an element of strategy, patience, and teamwork to the games.

My uber tank (12k es, high regen, max block, 50% crit reduction) can get one shot off screen by bows, but one of Noah's bear traps where he's taken every trap node on the tree with 700% crit multi, still don't one shot me. Therefore I think bear trap damage certainly shouldn't be reduced any further.

In terms of holding power, I use level 26 bear traps with increased duration. The damage sucks and it only holds tankier life builds (Lib) for about 2 seconds, if I recall correctly. I think that's somewhat reasonable.

On another note, we found out last night that phase run allows you to still run while being bear trapped, albeit very slowly. Will have to test this further. *Edit: Tested this and it doesn't work. Not sure why Hyrri was walking in slow motion after being bear trapped.*

there is no moment that i could one shot you with any bow, any skill. you die to one shots due to herald of ash prolif. im sure i cant even kill you with our without walls LA shots. you are one of the most tanky players out there.

second note, i feel like i have to justify my build. i have a tendency to fight against arrogance and blind narcissism. i can't stop myself when i see arrogance. LA was just an act against arrogance and ignorance of abusive build players, and it worked for a long while as a solution.

i wouldnt call what i did as a labor for pvp community, but we knew with deth as we are sending our char to HOGM, we are opening the possibility to make it get fixed by GGG. and that was my intention, it was the time to make it fixed. IM happy that day when people started complaining how OP our char is in HOGM, mathil -what a coincidence- discovered that mechanic too and we have a FW fix now. im happy that deth gave me an opportunity to make it seen by whole community and make it get fixed.

as a wealthy player, its very common to get harassed by others as well. head_high, fireslick_2000, karunamah or whatever consistently harasses me when we are doing ranked matches. same for texasisfucked... homeseeking... there are even more guys that i cant recall their names right now who are harassing, swearing while playing vs mirror builds... also i remember, there was a moment where frost wall + romira was creating a such OP situation that due to lag & knockback you were getting stunlocked. i had an also expensive build that time, LS sword build... and i remember a guy harassed me for like 1 hour and made fun of me how useless my build is, how inferior and low beeing i am that cant even erect a 1000ex build to be able to counter his. this is just one example, probably i had like 50 examples like this one. as a wealthy player... you get often get harassed. keep that in mind.


so THEREFORE, if you have 1500ex build, you gotta be sure, its the most broken shit in the game so people cant toy with you. probably i have only principle not to use any non blockable skill in the game. otherwise, i'm all in abusive shit in game and my past experiences shown me that pvp community, me or any others are not worth to pay attention for and i don't feel responsible of any consequences which possibly can happen because of me.

Or maybe some people just enjoy griefing and will try to legitimize their behaviour in whatever way they see fit.

Pvp in poe is pretty broken+unbalanced and will stay that way since the design focus is on pve, we've known this for a long time now. So you have to have self-restraint in pvp to keep it fun for others and keep people engaged. If you don't practice self-restraint, nobody is going to like you much. Neither the people who leave, nor the people who don't like that other people are leaving.

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Rupenus wrote:

there is no moment that i could one shot you with any bow, any skill. you die to one shots due to herald of ash prolif. im sure i cant even kill you with our without walls LA shots. you are one of the most tanky players out there.

I get one shot from some guy's LA crit fire damage, with no srs around, so it's not always HoA. Happens even if I'm afk. Only way I can stay alive is if I have a burn flask running, while chasing. Vhlad is one of the guys that can do that, among others.

EA has one shot ability if I'm remotely near walls or ground to bank off of.

I forget his name, sexysomething, plays LA... Was two shotting me without walls or burn yesterday. Both shots were secondary damage fired within 0.5s, unblockable, and impossible to get away from in that time span, so that can safely be called a "one shot" for all intents and purposes.