It took less than a day for PvP to be filled with Templar Sparker

icedeal your shotgun damage deals like 2k to 3k damage. while mine is dealing 7k-13k damage. your attack speed is very high for LA build, you are fragile... any low life good caster builds can one shot you. you cant deal with EA with such low damage value + high attack speed too.

should i list more problems about your build?

my point is, with 500ex your build would get 15-20% better maybe but that 20% is big difference in pvp. thats my point. its really easy to make half/60% strong build that i have. but 90% strong build that i did takes again like 1000-1500ex. thats what im talking about.

Of course it's not as perfect as a 2000ex build, i made it in 15 minutes just to see the gameplay and it's already strong enought to dominate sarn (I would try 1vs1 as well but no one is queing so i can't have any feedback from there yet).

Obviously any build will dominate if you inject 2000ex into it (or the player is really bad, rmted his stuff and took a least 2 hours to complete the labyrinth by himself.)

"

trav_dawg wrote:

I have to agree with Dalb on this one, 2H RT has been nerfed into the ground and the imbalance is so obvious. I can speak objectively as I have both Brood twine and Mind Fang on my active characters. It is very true that you can offscreen with Brood Twine LA 1-2 shot almost anyone.

Now to be fair, look at this:

Its god damned perfect. It's really expensive and it does a ton of damage and it is not unfair for it to kill players really fast.

To that same point,

This sword is also retardedly powerful, and If I land on top of you with this and start spinning, you should die, really fucking fast.

But why is it that Brood Twine's power is reflected in the game and in PvP, but melee seems to have only a fraction of the effectiveness you'd expect? I can set up to do just under 30,000 lightning damage per hit with that sword as RT (and with lightning penetration) and it does NOT one shot people, or TWO shot people. I am often having to do hundreds of thousands of resist-penetrating damage to whittle through 5k life. But from two screens away I can insta-gib? Why? It does not make sense.

You want an answer? Crit. Your 30k is doing 30k...their 30k is doing 150k+.



As for 2h RT, it's been nerfed. It's always been on the weaker side compared to some other builds. Having played RT 2h since beta and the first to make it the norm to have 40 weapon swaps as 2h, I'll say this...2h RT is fine. If it was buffed to be as baby proof as the other shit in this game I'd quit. The obvious problem areas in this game just need to be normalized and all the pieces will fall into place from there. Having also PvPed in a ton of other games for close to 20 years I can tell you this game doesn't need a lot to work it just needs that initial push in the right direction instead of shoveling more and more shit on top of the pile before something is done about it.

It's very obvious to some that mechanics are carrying inexperienced players through PvP in this game. GGG isn't going to stomp that out and that's the same reason ranged is so heavily played because its safe/low risk/high reward. That's why melee will never be a more "viable" option because by design that can never be the case and if ranged sucked you'd lose 90% of the casual player base because scrubs want easy shit and scrubs want to think they kick ass all the time even when they don't...that's why games have top tier characters that are ez to play. That's why arpgs always have powerful ranged options and that's why games now a days are designed heeeeeeavily toward crit/multipliers so you as a scrub can feel like you're the baddest mother fucker on the planet when you hold down that mouse button. So...stop the bitching, no one gives a shit if yours or my build takes the most skill to play because everyone's in denial. You have guys like Rupenus telling you his shit's super hard to play when we all know it's not...for example. Let's just focus on whats blatantly obvious and strong. After recognizing there are limited "great" options to approach said problems, we then try to get GGG to normalize them.

mulla i watched some of your games in pvp tournament.

you played mostly EA, but to be known as the only 2H cycloner left in the meta, you switch to cyclone in unnecessary situations and throw the game. you didnt want others to think... 'hmm mulla is not playing 2H cyclone anymore' the occasions you switched to EA was so pointless that i feel shocked, my jaw dropped off. i was like wow... wtf is he doing. you were winning the round with EA, but to fnish the round with 2H melee cyclone, (which makes you feel good, 'im not EA player... im 2H cycloner... im legit... im very skilled... see... D2 days... im inventor of off hand bow), you lost many rounds and in the end, you lost the game. i remember also that you were trying to start the gmae as 2H cyclone then switching to EA and suddenly switching back to cyclone aimlessly and jumping into explosions, aoe... etc and die. when you werent caring about how you'd look from 3rd person and others opinions you were playing really good. i cant remember who your opponent was. watching you lose even though you have more skills made me feel bad.

this explains everything about you i think. you are like the japanese hero characters in akira kurosawa movies. trying to be honorable, strong and skilled but you are not a winner. but this is not a movie, and im not the one who would shed manly tears of how honorable you are and how cruel the world is.

lets back to the topic.

crit got a bit nerfed. not much but multipliers are 20% less now. the problem is, when you get good gear and stack some damage, people can get one shotted. when you nerf damages so hard, EA AoE explosion spam or other AoE spells gonna control the meta.(or spark) its like a 2 edged sword. damage or aoe? offscreen one shots or aoe spam? offscreen shots are good too but in pvp arenas its hard to stay offscreen , they are so small.

also you should understand that ill be playing pvp all the time. (as much as my wife allows me to, haha)you want to think that im playing pvp because im abusing something overpowered. nah. i just wanted to be able to get libritannia or other EA players in duels, and i did it. EA is abusive from my point, and i abused LA tricks. abuse vs abuse, thats how i perceive my standing point in pvp. im not saying LA needs HIGH HIGH HIGH skills, but its not only right click build like spark. and im not trying to be the best skilled, most acknowledged player in the poe, you can take that throne if you want. it seems to me that you self claimed that throne for yourself since long time. i wish you were less ego oriented person and instead of beeing honorable you'd choose 'winning' and show us some skills and add more colors to pvp scene. i hope this will happen after GGG will deal with pvp problems.

i agree with you that crit mechanics are based on to give more ego masturbation material to the immature guys. but this doesnt mean i dont wanna 'abuse' it while others are abusing other mechanics.

"

Rupenus wrote:

mulla i watched some of your games in pvp tournament.

you played mostly EA, but to be known as the only 2H cycloner left in the meta, you switch to cyclone in unnecessary situations and throw the game. you didnt want others to think... 'hmm mulla is not playing 2H cyclone anymore' the occasions you switched to EA was so pointless that i feel shocked, my jaw dropped off. i was like wow... wtf is he doing. you were winning the round with EA, but to fnish the round with 2H melee cyclone, (which makes you feel good, 'im not EA player... im 2H cycloner... im legit... im very skilled... see... D2 days... im inventor of off hand bow), you lost many rounds and in the end, you lost the game. i remember also that you were trying to start the gmae as 2H cyclone then switching to EA and suddenly switching back to cyclone aimlessly and jumping into explosions, aoe... etc and die. when you werent caring about how you'd look from 3rd person and others opinions you were playing really good. i cant forget who was your opponent. watching you lose even though you have more skills made me feel bad.

this explains everything about you i think. you are like the japanese hero characters in akira kurosawa movies. trying to be honorable, strong and skilled but you are not a winner. but this is not a movie, and im not the one who would shed manly tears of how honorable you are and how cruel the world is.

lets back to the topic.

crit got a bit nerfed. not much but multipliers are 20% less now. the problem is, when you get good gear and stack some damage, people can get one shotted. when you nerf damages so hard, EA AoE explosion spam or other AoE spells gonna control the meta.(or spark) its like a 2 edged sword. damage or aoe? offscreen one shots or aoe spam? offscreen shots are good too but in pvp arenas its hard to stay offscreen , they are so small.

also you should understand that ill be playing pvp all the time. (as much as my wife allows me to, haha)you want to think that im playing pvp because im abusing something overpowered. nah. i just wanted to be able to get libritannia or other EA players in duels, and i did it. EA is abusive from my point, and i abused LA tricks. abuse vs abuse, thats how i perceive my standing point in pvp. im not saying LA needs HIGH HIGH HIGH skills, but its not only right click build like spark. and im not trying to be the best skilled, most acknowledged player in the poe, you can take that throne if you want. it seems to me that you self claimed that throne for yourself since long time. i wish you were less ego oriented person and instead of beeing honorable you'd choose 'winning' and show us some skills and add more colors to pvp scene. i hope this will happen after GGG will deal with pvp problems.

i agree with you that crit mechanics are based on to give more ego masturbation material to the immature guys. but this doesnt mean i dont wanna 'abuse' it while others are abusing other mechanics.

Lag prevents me from swapping hands at leisure. Also causes me to run into explosions etc..because I hit weapon swap...assume it worked and namelock thinking I have a bow on and instead run into the person. Skills mean nothing in this game at the moment. All I face is EA/LA/Spark. If I played to win I could, if not for the server issues. I play to pass time and to have fun, there was nothing to win I only participate in those tournaments to increase numbers and hopefully keep them going for the betterment of PvP's future. You'll never see me play 100% to win until there is something to win.

Edit: Also being melee puts you in a range where you're not "playing to win" when it comes to what people have at their disposal in this game. So if I wanted to win, in this current meta with my current set of items/options id just play EA full time. Which as you pointed out worked until I attempted to be melee...in melee range...against non melee and get out dps'd/tanked like a sucker.

As for EA/Aoe etc..if damages were to be nerfed. Crit is still the biggest damage scaler in this game, regardless of how problematic a non crit skill like EA is because of its mechanics/arena design. You know you're pushing base x-x damage equivalent to that of non crit builds with 800dps weapons...so you know you're already doing ass loads of damage before a crit, why do you need 6x that when you do? Nerf crit, fix abused mechanics...games fine. You don't nerf crit so hard that RT is the best option, you nerf it bit by bit so it's still the strongest multiplier in the game but isn't overkilling people for 100k damage a hit.

I also wasn't intending to bash your skills or you as a person. It was an example that fit perfectly with the current set of messages. Ahfack explaining how he's raping fools as RT melee with LA, it's so ez. While others are claiming their shit doesn't stink and then you talk up the skill it takes to play LA. I get it, you put lots of hours into your build man..you got that shit to as close to perfect as you can get it to achieve your goals. Forcebrute was running LA years ago and I said even back then that skill was ridiculous but until now no one was using it. Point is, fuck all this my shits harder to play then yours discussion. We all know what's strong and why everyone's jumping ship repeatedly to the next FOTM abuse-able PvP set up...can't we all just remove the bias and agree these things need normalized?

"

Sadat wrote:

and i am surprised that you are seriously expecting that one day there will be perfect balance; there wont.

Yep. It's pretty obvious, especially when you are playing HLD. With every expansion ggg offers, game mechanics are getting more and more complicated. Ascendancy is a HUGE piece of code in terms of new game mechanics. Do you really expect PvP to be balanced after ggg introduced so many new things to the core of the game? Oh, come on! It's been more than a year after 1.3 landed, which introduced some long time awaited PvP changes, like new maps, lots of changes in damage scaling, PvP tournaments and ladders. This was indeed a solid step to bring PvP to a new level, but after a short while the support of PvP started to fade out, the main reason is because there was no success to involve lots and lots of new players. Majority just don't give a duck about PvP in general, it's not popular, it's always been unbalanced, it's ridiculously hard and takes lots of effort to balance it the way we all here want it to be, so why would a 60 person staff even bother? Don't get me wrong here, I absolutely love this game and do appreciate the hard dev's work, despite all the problems we have. Life's still good, even when PvP feels broken :)

But yeah, I also could not agree with the main complain about those called Sparktards. That's one of the most idiotic things that we seen here in a long time. EA looks silly now.

"

letmeknov wrote:

"

Sadat wrote:

and i am surprised that you are seriously expecting that one day there will be perfect balance; there wont.

Yep. It's pretty obvious, especially when you are playing HLD. With every expansion ggg offers, game mechanics are getting more and more complicated. Ascendancy is a HUGE piece of code in terms of new game mechanics. Do you really expect PvP to be balanced after ggg introduced so many new things to the core of the game? Oh, come on! It's been more than a year after 1.3 landed, which introduced some long time awaited PvP changes, like new maps, lots of changes in damage scaling, PvP tournaments and ladders. This was indeed a solid step to bring PvP to a new level, but after a short while the support of PvP started to fade out, the main reason is because there was no success to involve lots and lots of new players. Majority just don't give a duck about PvP in general, it's not popular, it's always been unbalanced, it's ridiculously hard and takes lots of effort to balance it the way we all here want it to be, so why would a 60 person staff even bother? Don't get me wrong here, I absolutely love this game and do appreciate the hard dev's work, despite all the problems we have. Life's still good, even when PvP feels broken :)

But yeah, I also could not agree with the main complain about those called Sparktards. That's one of the most idiotic things that we seen here in a long time. EA looks silly now.

Still when you really think about it there's only a true handful of things that need fixed for PvP. Most of the Ascendancy passives helped PvP more then hurt it.

Y'all arguing about this and that... ego leaded more than anything else.

Without even bringing concrete ideas and solutions.

The first thing GGG needs to do OBVIOUSLY is to re-measure the gems PvP algorithm...

Some need to be increased, some reduced, we already talked about which ones and i'm sure they're obvious for GGG and every player right now.

Are melees OP ? Not without crit. ---> Take a look at gems from that perspective in the meta.

Are bows OP ? Yes with and without crit. ---> Adjust bow gems according to meta.

Are casters OP ? Yes with crit. ---- Adjust gems according to meta.

Look i could enumerate so much more an be more specific... but you get the idea. When saying '' Yes they are OP '' it means some of they are off and need to be re-measured but not all of them.

Stop arguing just to prove to the community that you own a status, we're all in the same boat here suffering from un taken care off game content that affected us, it needs rebalance and it's normal for such a big patch that added so much more damage to 60% of builds.

Be patient... they might come with a patch sooner or later since their pve stuff is now released, keep discussions up to raise attention but salt leads nowhere.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's my grain of salt : You guys are still all younglets, ez pz skill wise, havent seen much and panic when changes arrive. I went tru dozens of ll cc nerfs over years and i still keep it competitive since day 1 in 2012 same fucking build... ;). I saw a gazulion players with ''broken meta builds'' and when the adjustment day arrives and these guys dont see their toon performing as well and they arent seen anymore in PvP. Most are unable to adapt to a changing meta and this is a real fact.

Skill in poe pvp is not about '' being able to 1 shot as many opponents as possible ''.

It's about :

1: How well can you adapt to changing metas with your main build, a good pvper doesnt change build all the time he makes it better.

2: How well do you know the game

3: How well do you know the maps to use them at your advantage

4: Do you know all the possible swaps/counter and have them at your disposal ?

5: How long can you put up a fight ?

6: Can you do well against All builds, even broken ones ?

7: You dont have to rek everyother build to be skilled, but you need to atleast be competitive and be hard for your opponent.

8: How well can you micro and use your build to its full potential.

9: Using the right potions and when to use them

10: Outplaying and tricking your opponent.

and last... how quickly can you aim and react...

I personally dont give a shit if you can 1 shot or not, some pvpers can 1 shot and but they also get killed on everybit of damage taken, which is terrible for 1v1 arenas.

Everyone has its up and downs... i think everyone here is skilled in poe pvp in its own way, it does require some skill but it's not the hardest type to master and we all know. It's a lot of brain paired with minimal reaction time and clicking.

Peace !

holy shit this thread is drama, couldnt even read most of the responses

Can we just go back to griping about Spark? For fuck's sake.