[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)

I have tested lvling with PA last wipe since lvl 40 with tree like this and +1 bow gem bow (PA-AoE-Conc-Slower Proj.) and it was pretty smooth with blood rage and flame golem on. On lvl 53 i had like 1.3k dps on the cloud so yea it is pretty nice imo. Looking forward to see your results, since this wipe i am trying to test other lvling possibilities.

Just a few questions for my low life theory craft.

Regarding Frenzy charges versus Jewels:

If you had to, would you sacrifice a frenzy charge node for a jewel slot? In other words does a decent damage jewel give more or less damage than 1 frenzy charge in beta at the moment?

The current tree I am theory crafting (again) has 6 jewel slots and +1 frenzy charges, but I could drop the frenzy for another jewel, with the bandit reward it would either be:

5 Frenzy charges and 6 Jewels
OR
4 Frenzy charges and 7 Jewels

Jewels could have: 8% ES and ~35% damage at best if I don't need resistances.


Regarding the IIQ gem in Standard:

What support gem would you swap IIQ with? Slower projectiles or AoE/Conc and keep slower projectiles? I think removing the conc gem would decrease the DoT a lot, but you could use Culling Strike instead. Might be best to have a separate skill for culling bosses with IIQ like flame totem or your golem if it's reliable enough.

@aelm: as always, thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to sharing my thoughts alongside yours.

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Mr_G wrote:

If you had to, would you sacrifice a frenzy charge node for a jewel slot? In other words does a decent damage jewel give more or less damage than 1 frenzy charge in beta at the moment?

Not in the slightest. Frenzy is multiplicative damage, which factors in at the absolute end of the calculations. 10% increased vs 4% more @ end game is something like 150 tooltip vs 500 tooltip. Prioritize frenzy charges first.

"

Regarding the IIQ gem in Standard:

What support gem would you swap IIQ with? Slower projectiles or AoE/Conc and keep slower projectiles? I think removing the conc gem would decrease the DoT a lot, but you could use Culling Strike instead. Might be best to have a separate skill for culling bosses with IIQ like flame totem or your golem if it's reliable enough.

I think if you were going to opt for IIQ, I'd drop AoE, bounce down into Scion's AoE cluster to offset it, and pull out the proj dmg / jewel cluster to be able to fit it in at the same level.

Also, you don't need Harrier. Wasted point.

But yeah I agree, flame totem + cull + iir + iiq would be your best option if you wanted to min/max that way. That way you can keep your investment on the tree and not sacrifice a gem slot on your main skill. But, up to you. That's just how I'd do it, because I consider clear speed to = effective IIQ.

Depends how significantly the clear speed is impacted I guess.

How much DPS can I expect without spending large amount of currency (on beta)? Say a 5L +2 gems bow, PA 19, Empower 2.
Also, would Empower even be worth it unless it's an effective 3 compared to something like Culling Strike (almost 60% increased).

"

CantripN wrote:

How much DPS can I expect without spending large amount of currency (on beta)? Say a 5L +2 gems bow, PA 19, Empower 2.
Also, would Empower even be worth it unless it's an effective 3 compared to something like Culling Strike (almost 60% increased).

Currently I'm at 8.5k Cloud DPS. (Carcass, 5L, +2 Empower and 19PA) Got there relatively easy. Only bought a second Andvarius and 5L, everything else was self found.

What do you think about the passive point "arrow dancing"?

I played this build for a while, and found that we are actually very rarely get hit by melee monsters, but range monsters do. Sometimes, we even get hit by multiple arrows from a big pack of the monsters, which is quite painful.

Jumping on the scion band-waggon, would this build have any higher dps values as a scion (level 85+ and endgame), with the extra jewel options?

If so, Serleth, could you mock-up a Scion variant of the passive tree?


Also, what's the easiest & fastest way to level until 65+, since PA is such a bore for leveling?

I've read this thread and some of the solutions would be:
- split arrow/chain or TS
- spectral throw
- throw some flame totem in the mix

Which would you use, Serleth?


Thanks for your time.

"

Jumping on the scion band-waggon, would this build have any higher dps values as a scion (level 85+ and endgame), with the extra jewel options?

If so, Serleth, could you mock-up a Scion variant of the passive tree?


Also, what's the easiest & fastest way to level until 65+, since PA is such a bore for leveling?

I've read this thread and some of the solutions would be:
- split arrow/chain or TS
- spectral throw
- throw some flame totem in the mix

Which would you use, Serleth?


Thanks for your time.

Serleth has provided a good guide for how to level. But anyway, personally, I used split arrow and ice shot for a short while, and move to Rain of Arrows from Lv 12, with a Ice Shot totem, until lv 38. From then, I can use Poison Arrow, and I will keep using Ice Shot Totem.

Or, you even can pick some melee skills for leveling, because the initial part of the passive tree, is almost the same as some melee builds, until the Chaos and DoT dmg points.

Serleth,

I think in the later stage, we may connect a Hypothermia gem to our PA link, which can benefit from the Ice Shot totem. I connected Ice Shot with Ranged Attack Totem, GMP, and Faster Attacks. That will spam ice everywhere on the ground.

what do you think?

"

How much DPS can I expect without spending large amount of currency (on beta)? Say a 5L +2 gems bow, PA 19, Empower 2.

See Cantrip's response: In short, 8-10k depending on tree, charges, etc. Each level will add about 1.5k tooltip, so a level 3 empower and level 20 PA will bring you up around 11-13k-ish.

"

Jumping on the scion band-waggon, would this build have any higher dps values as a scion (level 85+ and endgame), with the extra jewel options?

If so, Serleth, could you mock-up a Scion variant of the passive tree?

You can essentially take my tree, and start from Scion. The only difference is that you'd start from Scion's projectile damage two nodes. Effectively it means that you'd have to spend one extra point to achieve the same tree (you would pull the second 10% projectile damage node I grab next to sniper).

It's otherwise identical, but +1 point cost. That's why I start from ranger. You would see a net of +6% projectile damage for that point. Conversely starting from ranger and spending that extra point, you get a +8% projectile damage benefit.

But that extra point becomes a more significant difference if we get the jewel node next to Acrobatics. One point savings at 88+ is a big deal.

The only benefit going Scion has is if your tree wasn't planning on pathing to the Scion area to begin with, or if you really wanted to go absolutely nuts on jewels and spread out from Scion start.

Apologies to Project PT and others, but Scion (while improved, thanks to Jewels) is still sub-par for most build structures. As this build, I think, has proven. It went from two jewels, to 6, and did so efficiently without sacrificing much of anything.

The key to using Jewels is by not relying on them, but building your tree efficiently so as to take convenient advantage of them.

"

What do you think about the passive point "arrow dancing"?

I played this build for a while, and found that we are actually very rarely get hit by melee monsters, but range monsters do. Sometimes, we even get hit by multiple arrows from a big pack of the monsters, which is quite painful.

Acrobatics and the three dodge nodes behind it will do most of the work. Melee is still the heaviest of the damage dealers in the game, with the possible exception of the puncturing Hulks in A4.

Arrow Dancing would largely be for those, Porcupine Goliaths, and two bosses (Labyrinth, Orchard). Otherwise I find we'd prefer to have better melee evasion (charging monsters, leapers, devourers popping on our face).

"

Also, what's the easiest & fastest way to level until 65+, since PA is such a bore for leveling?

I've read this thread and some of the solutions would be:
- split arrow/chain or TS
- spectral throw
- throw some flame totem in the mix

Which would you use, Serleth?

I'll have more information on this after the wipe. I suspect, to be honest, PA will be the most efficient since you won't have to be stopping in town every four levels to do another rustic recipe, reorganize your gems, etc. Ideally if you could have twink gear, I would consider spectral throw to 50s (Wideswing/Shiversting > Geofri's > Rigvald's), but if you can get your hands on a Death's Harp, SA - PPAD - Added Fire is fine as well.

I still need to test this but I think the moment we can get a 4L +1 bow, PA will work reasonably well.

Regardless, yes, while levelling, try get a flame totem in there.

"

I think in the later stage, we may connect a Hypothermia gem to our PA link, which can benefit from the Ice Shot totem. I connected Ice Shot with Ranged Attack Totem, GMP, and Faster Attacks. That will spam ice everywhere on the ground.

what do you think?

While levelling, maaaaaaaaaaybe. But for the final build, absolutely not. Most things will be dead by the time the chilled ground even takes place, and taking the time to drop a totem is time you're spending not spreading your PA cloud. It will slow you down more than it's worth. If we were going dps spec instead of MF, I'd get behind this idea in a 6L, but I would use Artic Breath instead. The reason for this is ice shot scales off bow damage, and we'll have hardly any of that. But AB not only has a wider spread of chilled ground, but sees the benefit of all the projectile damage that we take.

The subsequent problem you have in doing that is anything that AB kills means your PA cloud's IIR gem won't benefit you. You would need to have IIR in your AB totem as well, and that's immediately three gem slots taken.

Then there's the issue of what would you remove from PA?

Conc effect, Empower, and Slower Proj isn't an option.

AoE (imho) isn't an option either, since reduced AoE = reduced pack clear speed = more time spent in the map = lower psuedo-IIQ. And that's bad for MFing.

That leaves Pierce. Which we're already dropping in a 6L for IIR.

So, combine a net reduced clear speed combining both the time spent dropping totems and the reduced pack clear speed, ultimately Hypothermia just isn't functional for us in an MF spec.

Good idea though for non-MFing. Could have some nice potential for bosses, and I might even consider running an AB totem anyway with CoH+enfeeble just to provide increased survivability for Hardcore variations or for more difficult bosses.

What do you think about them deciding to add in the hidden potential gem? Would you consider using some blue's for the massive increase in damage?

Also I noticed you don't use trap. Are the days of poison arrow trapping finally over? I mean in your video you have absolute god tier gear. It's very very expensive. A level 3 empower or just empower in general+a 6L bow. So does the damage still stand up without trapping with subpar gear?

I thought doing maybe Poison Arrow>Conc>Trap>Inc Trap Dmg(new gem)>Slower proj>IAoE/PhysicalProj

And using in my chest something that culls with IIR and such. It could be anything really. Since the damage isn't important.



I've made poison arrow builds in almost every single league so far. This one is a MoM>AA Life Build. I may take the trapping out if you think it's not needed to speed up clear times. Eldritch Knowledge is going in the top jewel socket. Depending on your thoughts on the immense potential of Hidden Potential; that gem or the Proj gem you use is going in the other jewel slot.