Make pvp fun?

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

I would also like to add smokemine, and tempest shield to the list. I feel like elemental damage in general is insane. Especially combining High explosive traps with penetration gems. Molten shell combine with elemental equilibrium combined with tempest shield and a +1 6link is absurd in lvl 28 pvp. Seems like melee is one of the more powerful mid range builds but compared to other styles like ranged chars with +2 arrows corrupted and not needing lmp, or compared to casters with +1 on most links, dual curse on hit gloves, and the initial 3 things linked, melee is forced to play ultra defensively and then still has trouble close range because of traps or all the cws/moltenshell/tempestshield/lmp shotgun. I think if melee is played right it can definitely win in most situations but its seriously painful. we will have to wait and see what happens in act 4 I guess, maybe the tree will change substantially.

This is all true, and for HLD molten shell needs neither of this. That's why it needs to be scaled down even more in HLD since you'll oneshot either way!

"

LMSLMSLMS wrote:

bcuz sumthin got nerfd doesnt mean it isnt still strong af (ea hld).ur spark sux ass def not whats winnin u matches. swordboard is weak compared to critdagger, nothin new. i guess everyone whos usin cws setup is now copyin dat magik dude, he must be a genius aight, its not just a logic counter vs stunstormer iceshotter bs like u all over the place who force u wastin slots for it. ic for sum1 like u whos just watchin invitationals/top ladder and copys meta builds its hard to understand to actually use ur own brain. w/e has nothin to do with topic anyways.

<Edited by support>

ur hilarious in every point made!

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. When are people going to stop posting the same shit every single day all day? If GGG gave a fuck they'd of addressed it back when it was an option, back when I beat the subjects to death myself on a daily basis and even elaborated on many many other balance issues and ones that had potential to become future issues if not dealt with immediately and properly. GGG's easiest opportunity to achieve a decent balance was right before release, right before "cast on" gems were implemented. The fact it was neglected, ignored, shat on since day 1 all while they implemented more and more and more stuff to the game. The opportunity to balance this games PvP properly was washed away in a sea of shit to never be found again. It's like being a dumb ass with a leaky oil pan on your car/truck and constantly throwing qrts of oil in rather then fixing it until you spin a bearing. Initial problems with PvP were es vs hp discrepancies, lack of item swap options to handle status ailments properly and the damage output...now its a plethora of other things compounded with the laziness/suckiness of the player base. All I'm going to say on the matter. This game had great players, real fucking PvPers. Now it's left with bums and that's all it'll ever be.

Edit: I mean greendudes expert pvper in ggg's eyes, if that doesn't speak volumes I don't know what does.

I feel like smoke mine when played right creates this meta where everyone has to do it to a certain extent. It blinds non RT melee, it massively helps break stunlock chains (stun dominates the meta pretty hard in many matchups), it also teleports very far and basically instantly after being used, and is covered by CC when most people go for this node to protect traps (its massively helpful to smoke mines). Whirling blade received a nerf because it was too useful in utility and damage. Smokemine combined with blink arrow, mirror shot, clone shot, and other traps is just too much utlity. It either needs a shorter leash, more cool down on replenishing them, some kind of cast time to recall to the mine placement, or CC to not cover mines and have a separate node to protect smoke mine for 2.5 seconds. For a single gem its just wayyyyy too powerful. When 9 out of 10 builds are using smoke mine with insane effectiveness and no supports, its a pretty good indication its over powered in the current meta.

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

I feel like smoke mine when played right creates this meta where everyone has to do it to a certain extent. It blinds non RT melee, it massively helps break stunlock chains (stun dominates the meta pretty hard in many matchups), it also teleports very far and basically instantly after being used, and is covered by CC when most people go for this node to protect traps (its massively helpful to smoke mines). Whirling blade received a nerf because it was too useful in utility and damage. Smokemine combined with blink arrow, mirror shot, clone shot, and other traps is just too much utlity. It either needs a shorter leash, more cool down on replenishing them, some kind of cast time to recall to the mine placement, or CC to not cover mines and have a separate node to protect smoke mine for 2.5 seconds. For a single gem its just wayyyyy too powerful. When 9 out of 10 builds are using smoke mine with insane effectiveness and no supports, its a pretty good indication its over powered in the current meta.

I guess I can agree to a certain extent. But smokemine skill largely defines a good t1 player and a decent t1 player IMO.

In a melee vs bow/casters matchups, if you consider perfect plays for both sides, the melee player will be blinded all the time by smoke mine or tempest shield. Delima here is whether you are gonna balance melee overall dps level while taking blind, which is more than 50% damage reduction, into account or not.

In my eyes, with perfect plays and gears, an archer/caster trapper should not lose to a typical sword build without vagan weapon/RT and melees will always win with vagan weapon against a typical archer trappers assuming both sides play perfectly.

Also, If some people complained about stalling games with whirling blade and leap slam etc, they must not have seen what you can do with CC smoke mine to draw out rounds and games.

On top of everything said, they are going to add jewels to the game which I would say designed AGAIN without pvp in mind.

I love pvp as much as anyone in here but we have to accept that we are a minority and the balance will always favour pve over pvp.

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awetZ020 wrote:

On top of everything said, they are going to add jewels to the game which I would say designed AGAIN without pvp in mind.

I love pvp as much as anyone in here but we have to accept that we are a minority and the balance will always favour pve over pvp.

Designed pvp in mind or not, personally I think the jewels will add a whole new layer to LLD. I can't wait to start theorycrafting stuff around them. Some might be imbalanced at first sure but in the long run it should be great.

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LMSLMSLMS wrote:

bcuz sumthin got nerfd doesnt mean it isnt still strong af (ea hld).ur spark sux ass def not whats winnin u matches. swordboard is weak compared to critdagger, nothin new. i guess everyone whos usin cws setup is now copyin dat magik dude, he must be a genius aight, its not just a logic counter vs stunstormer iceshotter bs like u all over the place who force u wastin slots for it. ic for sum1 like u whos just watchin invitationals/top ladder and copys meta builds its hard to understand to actually use ur own brain. w/e has nothin to do with topic anyways.

<Edited by support>

The spark actually kills me pretty often. But CWS isn't a counter to a specific thing, it's an OP mechanic that deals way too much damage because it's a counter to EVERYTHING. Everything stuns. Double strike? Molten strike? Cyclone? Freezing pulse? Nado shot? Ice shot? Burning arrow? Friggin split arrow stuns if you have a decent bow. All you can do to counter a CWS is trap.