HLD & LLD Balance thoughts

It feels like most people are not objective. Grinding your pvp gear takes long time and you normally end up either perfecing your Bow user, Melee user or Spell caster. When you have made a charachter and it feels like you can't upgrade it anymore. You start making threads, posting comments about nerfing nerfing nerfing nerfing some certain skills you have problems with. Thats why our PvP feedback is so confusing and contradicts eachother. Its really hard to adjust to the meta in this game since you need really good gear for all kind of builds to adjust to this game.

Here is an example of HLD.

Most people in HLD plays a type of Spellcaster. Why choose spellcaster? Theres so many different spellcasting skills, so you can easily change your build with the same gear. They have alot of different builds.

Certain spellcast builds have the upperhand against melee builds. So alot of melee people here feels frustrated in HLD because 2 out of 3 times they meet a spellcaster that can counter them.

Lets say more people began to play bowusers, wouldn't bowusers have it easier against spellcasters?? If more bowusers, wouldn't melee have it easier?

I think the way to balance PvP is making it 33% melee 33% spellcasters & 33% bowusers. All 3 types have their strenght and weakness. GGG used Open Swiss in season 2 to analize HLD and see how it would go. But I think its wrong to balance HLD just looking on season 2 open events. People were not prepared for it because of the communication from ggg to the community. Its very slow, and the information comes to late. Alot of people are mapping and farming currency with Spellcaster builds. Thats why I think theres so many in this open season.

Got a caster, melee and bow in HLD and I like them all from their perspective

Lets say you have 150ex

would you make 3 different builds with 50ex each? or make 1 build with 150ex??

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Emro wrote:

Lets say you have 150ex

would you make 3 different builds with 50ex each? or make 1 build with 150ex??

1 build with 150 ex because that is such a small amount for HLD lol.

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hauntworld1 wrote:

1 build with 150 ex because that is such a small amount for HLD lol.

No biggie, the average player has hundreds of exalts at hand to try out entry level hld.

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Skyforth wrote:

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hauntworld1 wrote:

1 build with 150 ex because that is such a small amount for HLD lol.

No biggie, the average player has hundreds of exalts at hand to try out entry level hld.

No kidding. Its a shame lld was expected to be the low cost entry alternative yet ppl still bitch about even that. 100s of exalts vs 5-25 on average for a top tier character...still not good enough I guess. Costs nothing to PvP for fun, which should appease casuals. Its just they want to compete for the same effort and cost, haha.

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MullaXul wrote:

Its a shame lld was expected to be the low cost entry alternative yet ppl still bitch about even that. 100s of exalts vs 5-25 on average for a top tier character...still not good enough I guess. Costs nothing to PvP for fun, which should appease casuals. Its just they want to compete for the same effort and cost, haha.

For HLD people can use a large part of the end game items from their PvE characters, while LLD forces them to spend significant amounts of currency on items that have no "inherent" value.

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candoerfer wrote:

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MullaXul wrote:

Its a shame lld was expected to be the low cost entry alternative yet ppl still bitch about even that. 100s of exalts vs 5-25 on average for a top tier character...still not good enough I guess. Costs nothing to PvP for fun, which should appease casuals. Its just they want to compete for the same effort and cost, haha.

For HLD people can use a large part of the end game items from their PvE characters, while LLD forces them to spend significant amounts of currency on items that have no "inherent" value.

That has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. Inherit value? Really? If you're spending currency on such gear which still has multiple users in both PvP and pvm in order to compete...that's value. If you seek to casually PvP, the gear you got to 28 with is sufficient. If you're casual but feel you should be competitive against those that actually invested in their characters then you're in the wrong place and on the wrong genre. There isn't a single item in this game that has no inherit value outside of one aspect of play. You may not pvm after you hit 28 but the fact you stopped at 28 was because you chose to lld...and committed to competitive play thus any item you stick on your midget wanna be pvper has value. If investing in your character so you can compete has no value then just keep pvming past 28 and accept you just want to casually PvP and that given that just take what you're given because none of these things should affect you.

If value you mean resale....again seriously? Wtf happened to the ppl that pvped and pked because they wanted to and understood the cost. No incentive beyond that no prizes no bribes required. Mmorpg and moba really pussified PvP.

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MullaXul wrote:

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candoerfer wrote:

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MullaXul wrote:

Its a shame lld was expected to be the low cost entry alternative yet ppl still bitch about even that. 100s of exalts vs 5-25 on average for a top tier character...still not good enough I guess. Costs nothing to PvP for fun, which should appease casuals. Its just they want to compete for the same effort and cost, haha.

For HLD people can use a large part of the end game items from their PvE characters, while LLD forces them to spend significant amounts of currency on items that have no "inherent" value.

That has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. Inherit value? Really? If you're spending currency on such gear which still has multiple users in both PvP and pvm in order to compete...that's value. If you seek to casually PvP, the gear you got to 28 with is sufficient. If you're casual but feel you should be competitive against those that actually invested in their characters then you're in the wrong place and on the wrong genre. There isn't a single item in this game that has no inherit value outside of one aspect of play. You may not pvm after you hit 28 but the fact you stopped at 28 was because you chose to lld...and committed to competitive play thus any item you stick on your midget wanna be pvper has value. If investing in your character so you can compete has no value then just keep pvming past 28 and accept you just want to casually PvP and that given that just take what you're given because none of these things should affect you.

If value you mean resale....again seriously? Wtf happened to the ppl that pvped and pked because they wanted to and understood the cost. No incentive beyond that no prizes no bribes required. Mmorpg and moba really pussified PvP.

hey man, i think you're taking what he said a bit out of context. While I agree with some things you said, I do think its easier to sell HLD PVP items since a lot of them can also be used for end game PVE - i.e. Shavs, 6L weapons, shields, etc. I totally get that an awesome lvl 28 pvp item has value, but its a more limited buyer universe imo.

To your point on balance, I think HLD will be tough to balance until there is a significantly larger population base, which likely won't change until it somehow gets cheaper for the larger POE population to compete effectively. An expert PVPer can certainly build a strong char with under 100ex, but despite this, a lot of PvPers will still have hundreds of exalts in each char. Let's be real, it's expensive to build an HLD char and I'm sure it is discouraging for a PVE guy to step into a match and get destroyed by an opposing char that costs 200ex+. That PVE guy is going to think, 'f this' and go back to mapping.

Imho, D2, in addition to being a great game, had a big PVP community because you could pretty easily build a bone necro or hammerdin and kill people. Yes, in D2, you could spend a shit load to attain the very best gear, but that only provided you a marginal benefit in the game, like +30 more life on an amulet could turn it from good to godly. Whereas in POE, the difference between mid-tier and mirror gear is very significant.

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MullaXul wrote:

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Skyforth wrote:

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hauntworld1 wrote:

1 build with 150 ex because that is such a small amount for HLD lol.

No biggie, the average player has hundreds of exalts at hand to try out entry level hld.

No kidding. Its a shame lld was expected to be the low cost entry alternative yet ppl still bitch about even that. 100s of exalts vs 5-25 on average for a top tier character...still not good enough I guess. Costs nothing to PvP for fun, which should appease casuals. Its just they want to compete for the same effort and cost, haha.

someone rudely lied to you when they said lld top tier is only 25 exalts.

its hundreds of ex easily

build a character with 25 exalt then read off to me your resistances lol