GGG is giving up on PvP balance efforts ? ( Recent announcement )

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ripsaw1990 wrote:

It's not hard to realize why GGG is giving up on PvP this quickly. They secured sponsors, hired streamers, set up ladders, season prizes and tried to balance. There biggest mistake was trusting the community. It's obvious with things like people Ladder exploiting, [Removed by Support] hiding they're own builds and working their best to get other viable builds nerfed so they can dominate and sweep over $1000 in prizes. People complaining nonstop on forums that they're build is underpowered and everything better is overpowered.

We as a community failed GGG, they trusted us to grow and nurture PvP and we treated it selfishly, unsympathetically and uncompromising. GGG you failed us, but we failed you first.

Epic post. So true. I would like to apologize for being selfish in the past regarding pvp. I honestly care about it alot and I would have done a few things differently if I had the chance. GGG gave it a shot, I just hope that the few that linger around to keep pvping will help build the community bigger and bigger. I have pvped before there were prizes and I will continue to do so. I will try hosting some exhibition matches in the future. I know poe.arena wont stop the community tourneys either. PvP is moving in the right direction, dont take away from PvE GGG, but please keep listening and working small miracles for pvp!

Only Nick_GGG is alone working on PvP (according to the podcast) he is also working on unique design and new leagues. Its not like they are giving up on PvP, its just that they priotize PvE more. Now Nick is probably working on the new league challenges during this 1 month combined race. But I am sure we will hear from GGG again about PvP in the middle of the new leagues. Be patient.

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ripsaw1990 wrote:

It's obvious with things like people Ladder exploiting, Community Alpha testers like Lordsidro intentionally hiding they're own builds and working their best to get other viable builds nerfed so they can dominate and sweep over $1000 in prizes.

I did not play against sidro's build before the nerf but I don't believe that his trapper build was stronger than some of the top builds in this season like brain's caster build. People just got caught off guard by his new build and did not have the right idea how to deal with it. And now almost every top tier build with good gear can beat it (I might say it was overnerfed? but I will hold on to that since trapper/oneshotter builds are annoying :P).


OT, the gear barrier that was caused by elreon's multi and mana cost mod and corrupted mods played a lot more significant roll in discouraging people to try out pvp and balance issues came next.

Regarding the LLD blanace, I'd say the level of damage is too high, perma stun and perma freeze are too easy to achieve and these upset new players. All source of damage and flask life recovery amount should be reduced by like 50% imo.

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lapiz wrote:

Also if the HLD community had actually stepped up earlier and created a scene of more than 3 people, balancing the game would also be a lot easier.

The HLD community was active way before LLD even became a thing, do you really think we never tried to step up to GGG upon HLD balance, the number of emails, threads, and suggestions many people did including me have all been adressed once already, it has been going on for years now, they just dont listen to players enough. Some of the suggestions i did in the past via direct emails to GGG pvp balancers towards HLD pvp did not get adressed much. The number of efforts me and my guildmates did in the past reguarding balance upon HLD has outpassed any threads created on LLD balance these past months, why dont you get out the box and try out HLD instead of blaming that there's is not enough people playing, clearly inactive because of the LLD seasons. It's obvious no one is going to write real balance issues threads on feedback reguarding what needs to be changed. considering how much hate someone gets from stepping up his balls and watching people with current op builds react to it with hatefull and ignorant responses, only the ones who dont give a shit anymore about opinions and what others think about them will do so. Ive seen so much hate, so much hypocrisy, so much bullshit, so much broken stuff in PvP that i just dont care anymore what people think i can do or that i cant do, i post because i know it shakes the community and make's shit move, i really dont give a shit anymore and will continue to post threads no matter what others think about me. Certainly not going to stop posting threads because you cant stand reading such things.

Yes GGG did come up with certain good balances, they did destroy skills, they did make uncoherant balances that clearly did not change anything, they take ages to balance what is currently broken. Molten shell is a perfect exemple on how GGG is unable to take decisions. The HLD community has probably posted a hundred times years ago about how overpowered it is and still is and nothing has changed. Complexivity is certainly not a valid reason over why it takes so long to balance these specific things.

I would like to add up a thing, GGG is constantly getting emails from pve'rs that complain they get 1 shotted in pvp and cant compete, which is the reason why it is not attractive. If people did not make so many 1 shot mechanic builds it wouldnt be such an issue. Lapiz you are the one playing a one shot mechanic crit dagger molten strike build that can 1 hit over 1.2k life with his crit diamond flask, do you think that's encouraging any new pvper to play LLD ? Why dont you create a thread about 1 shot balance instead of saying that all you see is whiny threads ? I would like to know your position upon your current build, do you think 1 shots are balanced ?, if so then you clearly need to play HLD to realize how broken 1 shots are.

Edit...

Haha hlders not stepping up....hahahavavahshzbygbfjfcsscdhdhaha!!!! Riiiiiiiiight.


You realize all games reach this point some sooner then others. You are left with 1 dominate character or build, if you're lucky you get a few so there's at least some diversity. Nothing ever fully gets balanced and each patch some how teeters between a bit better or a bit worse due to new things. So ATM if balance was to slow down or completely stop here you'd have caster,EA at top tier. Dagger, bow,traps,2h and 1h mid tier and low tier is obv trash like totems,SRS. So you shouldn't be too upset since you rallied behind caster for years helping to dodge the right nerfs. Started top tier, retired top tier...seems shit worked out eh?

They'll still be balancing PvP though so it'll still likely change for the better. One things certain though it'll always end up in tiers and not everything will be viable. So goal should be to remove glaringly stupid abusable stuff so the tier gaps aren't so wide. So a smart choice could help a lesser tier hang with the top one instead of just die free for getting near them,hitting them or them hitting you.

They really dropped the ball when they said they were nerfing damage to remove one shot mechanics. Two seasons, still damage is far too high. That's all I really wanted.

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MullaXul wrote:

Haha hlders not stepping up....hahahavavahshzbygbfjfcsscdhdhaha!!!! Riiiiiiiiight.

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hauntworld1 wrote:

The HLD community was active way before LLD even became a thing, do you really think we never tried to step up to GGG upon HLD balance, the number of emails, threads, and suggestions many people did including me have all been adressed once already, it has been going on for years now, they just dont listen to players enough.

Exactly.. You have managed to create a HLD community so large I can count most of the members of it with my fingers. By creating a community I didnt mean writing balance suggestion emails to GGG about a subject that interests 10 random guys. By community I meant the sheer amount of people interested in the concept of HLD. If there were actual players maybe some effort could be put on balancing.

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hauntworld1 wrote:

Lapiz you are the one playing a one shot mechanic crit dagger molten strike build that can 1 hit over 1.2k life with his crit diamond flask, do you think that's encouraging any new pvper to play LLD ? Why dont you create a thread about 1 shot balance instead of saying that all you see is whiny threads ? I would like to know your position upon your current build, do you think 1 shots are balanced ?, if so then you clearly need to play HLD to realize how broken 1 shots are.

Who really cares about blitz? In bo7s daggers aren't even remotely on the same page as other builds unless they have ridiculous gear. With ridiculous gear, my temp league "1shot dagger" is a mediocre swiss build at most. It gets wrecked by the best casters, swords and even some bows occasionally.

The relation of one-shotting and new players seems very weird to me. Would a new player enjoy the game more if the "getting killed" part took 3 seconds longer while the outcome still was 100% certain? I would be just as pissed at least. New players couldn't care less about balance and they shouldn't because they have no clue about it.

Improving accessibility and making the pvp community more interesting and intriguing should be on your list of whine. Leave the balancing for when you actually have some players interested in the concept. You think a bit too highly of yourselves if you think you can balance HLD with a player pool of the current HLD community. There is soooooooo much stuff that hasnt been figured out yet hence there's seriously not much point adjusting stuff yet either.

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I would like to add up a thing, GGG is constantly getting emails from pve'rs that complain they get 1 shotted in pvp and cant compete, which is the reason why it is not attractive. If people did not make so many 1 shot mechanic builds it wouldnt be such an issue. Lapiz you are the one playing a one shot mechanic crit dagger molten strike build that can 1 hit over 1.2k life with his crit diamond flask, do you think that's encouraging any new pvper to play LLD ? Why dont you create a thread about 1 shot balance instead of saying that all you see is whiny threads ? I would like to know your position upon your current build, do you think 1 shots are balanced ?, if so then you clearly need to play HLD to realize how broken 1 shots are.

liked this part the most. LLD for new players is getting perma stunned, perma frozen and one shotted. sounds really attractive.

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jcostello1 wrote:

They really dropped the ball when they said they were nerfing damage to remove one shot mechanics. Two seasons, still damage is far too high. That's all I really wanted.

And they introduced the T formula which doesn't really help with one shots from a big slow (large T) attack. Take all your attack or cast speed off and you will still one shot with the help of this formula. (edited)

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mephisto_n wrote:

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I would like to add up a thing, GGG is constantly getting emails from pve'rs that complain they get 1 shotted in pvp and cant compete, which is the reason why it is not attractive. If people did not make so many 1 shot mechanic builds it wouldnt be such an issue. Lapiz you are the one playing a one shot mechanic crit dagger molten strike build that can 1 hit over 1.2k life with his crit diamond flask, do you think that's encouraging any new pvper to play LLD ? Why dont you create a thread about 1 shot balance instead of saying that all you see is whiny threads ? I would like to know your position upon your current build, do you think 1 shots are balanced ?, if so then you clearly need to play HLD to realize how broken 1 shots are.

liked this part the most. LLD for new players is getting perma stunned, perma frozen and one shotted. sounds really attractive.

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jcostello1 wrote:

They really dropped the ball when they said they were nerfing damage to remove one shot mechanics. Two seasons, still damage is far too high. That's all I really wanted.

And they introduced the T formula which actually helps someone to one shot easier with a big slow (large T) attack. Take all your attack or cast speed off and you will one shot with the help of this formula.

It's not even about just the new players, the old players are getting 1 shotted too. Lots of players are just getting bored of this. When I 1 shot people with one or more traps, it's stupid. When I get 1 shot, it's stupid. But that's our lovely PvP right now and I'm not getting my hopes up that it will change. I'm just going to let GGG do whatever it wants. Delete PvP for all I care, it would be refreshing not to have to deal with it.

What's left to figure out? Lld guys may of just figured out how to PvP but any hld worth a crap has nothing new to figure out except when GGG implements new things per big patch. After that its the same post and wait game we've had since beta. Seeing 0 results and literally no meta shift worth mentioning.

Anyways regarding new comers,casuals and accessability. Its a double edged sword, you can't make anything competitive more user friendly or easy to get into. Without making the top level suffer for it. If something is made easier to win with its that much easierfor someone good to exploit it. Without some kind of trade off in either direction you're just making a bigger mess. Lld balance effecting hld is a decent example of this. Its like taking pee wee basket ball, pushing the 3 point shot directly under the net but also applying this to the NBA. Gggs approach to PvP was going to fail from the start, you can't focus on pre end game PvP like they did, plus have this much crazy pvm stuff and listen to the community of which most have no idea or are new.

What needs to happen is PvP both lld and hld should remain a niche aspect of the game. GGG should address obvious balance issuesin the form of how well physical DMG compares to elemental, molten shell, EA and how balanced es vs HP options are. You can see what's being abused and why. Tackle what's abused and move ontobetter things i.e pvm again. Trying to achieve a better balance then that would net is a waste of resources especially when its done by ppl that a. Don't PvP and b. Listen to community feedback for direction...and the feedback is "I r died 2 dus guy who wuz lvl 28 but I r leval 27 so datz broken". Or " DAT guy has itams he played 2yurs to get but I want dem 2 or else I won't PvP huur huur".


Not to mention how penetration gems work currently and cwdt ic are common denominators in most balance issues. Pretty easy IMO to start there first, tackle rest slower.