[LLD & HLD] Smoke mine has to be adjusted for pvp.

Skill gives too much utility in 1v1 situations and was clearly not designed by taking pvp into consideration, you can spam it to get a movement speed boost and teleport from a kilometer away to avoid incoming damage or to avoid dying.

Drawbacks possible:

- 10% Decreased attack/cast speed for 3 seconds after smoke mining.

- Cooldown of X seconds before you can put down another mine. ( this has to be tested a bit )

- Distance limitation, if you try to smoke mine from the complete other side of the map it does not teleport you to the trap location.

Already existing advantages:

Blind against non RT builds.

Teleport out of damage to avoid dying or clever use of all movement skills combined to it to constantly avoid the enemy while maintaining the attack.

20% Increased movement speed after smoke mining.



I dont see why it should remain free to spam without any drawback considering the get out of combat utility it gives for defensive and constantly running builds. Take the exemple of trap bow builds, you have blink arrow, deerstalker already gives you MS boost uppon throwing a trap and you can use blink arrow to get out of combat. I dont see why smoke mine should be so free to abuse with that synergy considering what they already have.

You can also easily use it to blind in melee vs melee when you're facing a non rt guy, the reduced attack speed would give a drawback but still grants insane evading utility with blind effect.

It is also pretty easy to abuse in melee vs melee if you have any sort of regen, i can get into combat, take some damage, smoke mine out if i see that i will lose the encounter and regen without using flasks and then go back, rinse/repeat.

It should be a last resort skill to get another chance of surviving, any builds can simply put down a smoke mine at their spawn and teleport to it once they are about to die. Rinse/repeat.

Skill needs some drawbacks and a limitation on how many times u can use it so it wont be abusable anymore, it gets worst on wide open maps where you can really see how op it is when you see the person you're about to kill teleport back to it's spawn at the complete other side of the map.

Those changes would keep the skill as a last resort surviving tool without destroying the escape utility.

Ya I have been keen on smokemine reworking for awhile. I dont like to use it personally but I see how insanely strong it is when others use it. Best stun chain breaking skill around imo. Insanely good with firestorm too.

"

GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

Ya I have been keen on smokemine reworking for awhile. I dont like to use it personally but I see how insanely strong it is when others use it. Best stun chain breaking skill around imo. Insanely good with firestorm too.

Yeah it's good with firestorm aswell, but generally they have slower movement speed than most common trap builds so it's less of an issue. On the other side you can really see how abusable it gets when paired with a trap defensive deerstalker build.

Over 50% MS after throwing a trap and activating smoke mine, and being able to spam it without any cooldown or drawback.

Some clear adjustment needs to be done and they should apply to LLD and HLD.

I feel like only the blind aspect is too good about it.. It almost completely destroys anything not-marauder. The mobility it grants is a cool thing and allows for some nice moves this game otherwise lacks. Mouse 1 duels are boring. If you catch up to someone, destroying every smoke mine your enemy plants is rather easy.

I actually find it pretty funny that a marauder-only player is whining about smoke mine's utility..

Don't know about Melee vs Melee, but in LLD Melee vs Ranged Smoke Mine is pretty much the only thing that can save you from a fast flicker + cyclone.

And it's not like Smoke Mine is really spammable for a ranged player, you need to put down another mine before you can activate it again, you need to get away from it, then be sure that there is not an obstacle between you and the mine (on the server that is, so if you're desynced you already lost). Also you always have to hope that the mine doesnt get destroyed by some aoe skill.

Meanwhile flicker is much easier/faster to spam for melee without any skill needed, it just always works and even resync you with the server. This wouldn't actually be a problem if certain melee skills like cyclone didn't do so much damage in LLD.

Also skills like Blink Arrow only work if you use them before the flicker actually happens, if you start to shoot a blink arrow after a cycloner flickered on top on you, you are usually dead before the arrow hits the ground. And if not, than you have probably wasted a lot of pots and you will be dead with the next flicker.

There are a lot of skills that need to be worked on for pvp and smoke mine is not one of them. Even with top end movespeed I cannot run from melee due to the swiftness of whirling blades and auto target of flicker strike. Hell half the time when I smoke mine the person flickers across the whole map with me anyway.

"

ddub3987 wrote:

There are a lot of skills that need to be worked on for pvp and smoke mine is not one of them. Even with top end movespeed I cannot run from melee due to the swiftness of whirling blades and auto target of flicker strike. Hell half the time when I smoke mine the person flickers across the whole map with me anyway.

It doesn't surprise me to hear this from you - in the matches we play (with me going aggressive) you are basicly using smoke mine every 3-8 seconds. You do this because it's the absolutely only way you can even get away - Blink doesn't compare gap wise - the runspeed bonus on top of that.. I don't even

Sometimes I'm baffled by how stone-cold people can deny their match-winning skills (in this case match-drawing)

I mean sure - this is the internet. You never have to tell the truth and no one will ever punch you in the face for a lie.. but this is "FEEDBACK" - a small part in the forums where you are supposed to help the balance. Lies and denies should not be part of this


\PJSalt

"

B3R wrote:

"

ddub3987 wrote:

There are a lot of skills that need to be worked on for pvp and smoke mine is not one of them. Even with top end movespeed I cannot run from melee due to the swiftness of whirling blades and auto target of flicker strike. Hell half the time when I smoke mine the person flickers across the whole map with me anyway.

It doesn't surprise me to hear this from you - in the matches we play (with me going aggressive) you are basicly using smoke mine every 3-8 seconds. You do this because it's the absolutely only way you can even get away - Blink doesn't compare gap wise - the runspeed bonus on top of that.. I don't even

Sometimes I'm baffled by how stone-cold people can deny their match-winning skills (in this case match-drawing)

I mean sure - this is the internet. You never have to tell the truth and no one will ever punch you in the face for a lie.. but this is "FEEDBACK" - a small part in the forums where you are supposed to help the balance. Lies and denies should not be part of this


\PJSalt

Normally id throw the whole "hypocrite", "sand bagger" or "bull shitting GGG" card. Though Dub is right, Smoke mine isn't broken. Have you ever.. you know, like seen them plant it then destroyed it so they can't use it? I've fought Dub dozens of times and his Smoke mines are never an issue..ever. If you're relentless as a melee they should never have time to even abuse you with Smoke mine games anyways. Dub should never even have a chance to breath let alone Smoke mine you into a salty state. Sure Blink arrow pales in comparison but Smoke mine really isn't in need of balance especially not in lieu of more important matters in PvP. There is still far too much knee jerk bitching and denial around here though. GGG really needs a big shovel to dig through the piles of shit people post in search of real balance.

"

B3R wrote:

"

ddub3987 wrote:

There are a lot of skills that need to be worked on for pvp and smoke mine is not one of them. Even with top end movespeed I cannot run from melee due to the swiftness of whirling blades and auto target of flicker strike. Hell half the time when I smoke mine the person flickers across the whole map with me anyway.

It doesn't surprise me to hear this from you - in the matches we play (with me going aggressive) you are basicly using smoke mine every 3-8 seconds. You do this because it's the absolutely only way you can even get away - Blink doesn't compare gap wise - the runspeed bonus on top of that.. I don't even

Sometimes I'm baffled by how stone-cold people can deny their match-winning skills (in this case match-drawing)

I mean sure - this is the internet. You never have to tell the truth and no one will ever punch you in the face for a lie.. but this is "FEEDBACK" - a small part in the forums where you are supposed to help the balance. Lies and denies should not be part of this


\PJSalt

You can hear smoke mines being laid and where they are, just destroy them. That's always my first prior

Smoke mine is in a good place. Let's talk about the real elephant in the room.

ELEMENTAL EQUILIBRIUM! You know the broken mechanic they still won't fix. -50% resist for one keystone node? B3R has been using it to clean up on talismans. B3R do you care to comment on EE's current state? Or maybe we should stick to nerfing skills like smoke mine or elemental hit while we are at it.