Season 2 Balance Feedback - Week One

I don't know, I think trappers like one of the easiest if not the easiest specs to make, with just a little PvP experience. Its a very lenient build with only a few options and one target play style ha. Plus ignores much of the meta problems. If you can throw a trap, deal DMG and not die you've pretty much mastered it. I laughed when I saw heges over lay on his trapper, like its hard to replicate.

@Hauntworld1

You don't see actual good melee players in here complaining about what a rough life it is.
They just put up good results and win demis.

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Lordsidro wrote:

@Hauntworld1

You don't see actual good melee players in here complaining about what a rough life it is.
They just put up good results and win demis.

+1
Bows are prevalent because people think they're easy to build and they can use movement to compensate for their incomplete gear, that's why the midgame is full of them. The only bow builds giving melee a hard time are top tier gear maxed crit bow builds competing with mid tier melee.

Prevalent =/= dominant

Let's talk about the situation of Leo Redmane too. He's very important to the life of PvP, or at least he should be! He has so much potential compared to his current state.

Has anyone really looked into how hard it is to level him for the average player currently?

So let's look at how much it takes to level him to eight :

total reputation : 835300

NUMBERS ARE ROUNDED FOR SIMPLICITY

Let's say you want to level him to 8 in 40 days. Shouldn't be a far fetched idea compared to the other masters. Leveling a master to 8 in 40 days it probably around the average time it takes. It's even easier when /global 820 is active.

Most people would want to have him leveled in a new league before events, so they can actually use his mods in the events. Seems like a reasonable request.
So how much pvp would someone have to do everyday?

835300/40 = 20882

It would require 20882 points per day to get to level 8.

Currently, Leo's dailies give only a mere 3200 reputation.

20882-3200 = 17682

Now let's see how many kills that would equate to each day.

17682/80 = 221

If we ignore the possibility of Capture The Flag and 3 vs 3 matches(because these matches are harder to get and take much longer to get started), a person who is winning every match would be getting 4 kills per match. This is assuming they win EVERY match. Very impractical situation, but is easiest way to show without making up randomly generated numbers.

221/4 = 55

So the player would have to not only play but win flawlessly 55 games of 1vs1 matches in one day.

Okay, so how long would this all take to complete? The average 1vs1 can take around 3-7 minutes to finish. Let's use 5 minutes for this.

If every game took 5 minutes and you were able to get another game in 1 minutes time(again this is very impractical situation). That would be a total of 6 minutes per game.

55*6 = 331min

331/60min = 5.5hrs

In order to get Leo to level 8 in 40 days the player would have to play a total of 5.5hrs everyday plus the amount of time it takes to complete the daily.

Imagine missing one day. Imagine missing one daily. Each day you don't gain enough rep you would have to make up in another day. This whole scenario is set in perfect conditions.

How many hours does the average player play per day? How many hours does the average player play PvE compared to PvP?

How many hours does the player have to farm before he can even play any pvp events? These are days lost, which mean it takes even longer to level Leo.


Solutions :

For starters Leo should give far more reputation per daily. 3.2k is just not enough to even matter. It should be around 20-30k if not more.

Kills should give more rep per kill.

CTF should give reputation for capturing the flag and maybe even returning.

Winning matches should give a bonus reputation.

Events won't always be taking place in the temp leagues, so saying people can use the events to level him shouldn't be the solution. Let alone the fact that he should be leveled before the events so he has a use.
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Leo is more than just a pvp master with special pvp mods. He has hideout decorations and a very very nice hideout. These are things that the average player would still want to get, but in the current state, they have to try extremely hard to even get these things.

Most the people I know who PvP still haven't even leveled Leo to 7(which it's already 2 months in). This is the level his hideout is the largest and can hold the most masters. If anyone wants to use his hideout they have to use the smaller versions. This means they can't invite all the masters they want. They are limited. This doesn't seem fair to those who want to use his hideout.

Leo should be a way for beginners to upgrade their gear through playing pvp, but that's a topic for another day.

I was referring to ranged builds in general that are dominant in most season two events. I did not even mention that i had impossible issues against ranged builds, i just thinkg they are quite dominant for season 2 considering what kind of events we mostly have. I can already outplay trap/caster/puncture builds if i play correctly with my melee in 1v1s, it is a different thing when combined in quick blitz 3v3 events and such.

@Jcostello I dont consider myself a mid tier melee build but a high-T with the type of gear i achieved and the build expertises that i have, i'm certainly not giving these feedbacks because im getting rekt all the time when i can easily place myself in top 5 1v1 rankings and top 10 in every events we have that i play in. My feedbacks are based off what type of gameplay we're having during our events that are mostly blitz 1v1s 3v3s, and ranged builds are certainly much more dominant when teamd in blind blitz events, you cannot deny this.

@Lordsidro So rough i had to create a whole thread about my melee build sucking right sidro ?

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Qarl wrote:

(3) When someone looks at the current balance, and the meta, and makes an awesome build that dominate their opponents, that is awesome. It is living the dream, I imagine what a lot our PVP members want to do.

When someone succeeds at this, I don't want the immediate reward to be a swift nerf, and that build never being seen again.

Qarl, I am rank 1 US ladder and rank 3 & 4 EU ladder with a Poison Trap build. I made an awesome build and is dominant with it. So please no swift nerf on my build as you stated above, because I am living the dream now^^

funny title "balance". There can never be balance in 1v1.

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Emro wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

(3) When someone looks at the current balance, and the meta, and makes an awesome build that dominate their opponents, that is awesome. It is living the dream, I imagine what a lot our PVP members want to do.

When someone succeeds at this, I don't want the immediate reward to be a swift nerf, and that build never being seen again.

Qarl, I am rank 1 US ladder and rank 3 & 4 EU ladder with a Poison Trap build. I made an awesome build and is dominant with it. So please no swift nerf on my build as you stated above, because I am living the dream now^^

The queue doesn't mean much because it decays over time. People's rating go down if they don't play. Barely anyone queues, its always the same people you use to grind to the top.

1v1 blitz or even better, Swiss, would provide more accurate results.

The last time you were boasting on the forums, this happened

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GreenDude wrote:

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Emro wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

(3) When someone looks at the current balance, and the meta, and makes an awesome build that dominate their opponents, that is awesome. It is living the dream, I imagine what a lot our PVP members want to do.

When someone succeeds at this, I don't want the immediate reward to be a swift nerf, and that build never being seen again.

Qarl, I am rank 1 US ladder and rank 3 & 4 EU ladder with a Poison Trap build. I made an awesome build and is dominant with it. So please no swift nerf on my build as you stated above, because I am living the dream now^^

The queue doesn't mean much because it decays over time. People's rating go down if they don't play. Barely anyone queues, its always the same people you use to grind to the top.

1v1 blitz or even better, Swiss, would provide more accurate results.

The last time you were boasting on the forums, this happened

You don't get it do you?? Qarl was reffering to US and EU ladder queues, and discussed a potential nerf of pucture traps. So I got rank 1 in US and rank 3 EU in 1 day playing poison trap which does less damage than puncture trap. Like you, I just wanted to say that the ladder doesn't matter and that you shouldn't speak about nerf watching the ladders. I figured that they would probably nerf the trap gem, which also would nerf freezing pulse traps etc, which alot of people consider OP, (I think its balanced) So I just wanted to make a dominant build with poison trap, so I could use his own words against him incase they would nerf trap gem.

PS: GreenDude that was loong time ago. And no, I met many different players like: Ypldd, Helman-sidroprotege, ripcitytrick, Roeshakk and many others

All this shows (if it really shows anything) is that the traps are the problem, not what's linked to them. Players cant always arc traps faster than the bower can put some down because he has trap laying speed whereas a melee doesnt have cast speed.

Arcing traps doesnt show you it breaking which makes you scared to even go in too. Lastly, the builds that run bow traps are also the builds that can offscreen you with arrows. THis means between you and them are traps and while you try to play minesweeper, they are offscreening you.