I think it's a good decision to get some actual participation. Honestly, who cares if the supply is a bit lower on bloodlines, you can still get decent gear if you put in the effort. There is so much self babying when it comes to pvp here.
I put in the time and effort to make two equal characters, both very geared in torment and bloodlines but this still is good news to me because of participation.
wts(i didnt haku mod)
I don't think many people are arguing completely against the merging of the leagues -- it was something that needed to happen (I'm actually pretty excited to have a more active queue). It just needed to be done with a little more thought and consideration for preserving some difference between the leagues (because there are differences).
The economy in Bloodlines is significantly smaller than Torment. Take for example the supply of Prismweaves: right now, poe.trade shows almost double the amount of Prismweaves for sale on Torment as there are on Bloodlines. Granted, these are mostly the overpriced belts on both leagues that have been picked over by the bulk buyers. For me, the limiting factor in rolling a Vicious/Mercenary's bow on Bloodlines is the supply of Prismweaves. I've only been able to gather about 130 of them over the entirety of the league (and if I picked up the few remaining overpriced ones, all that would do is significantly raise the cost of the belts I have to buy after that -- there would still be a shortage), and I'm still running a Vicious/Journeyman's bow (139% IPD). Yes you can still hit top hybrid in 20 belts or so on Bloodlines, but if RNG is not on your side, you will not have the same opportunity to burn through the same amount of belts.
You might argue that a 139% IPD bow is "decent" enough, but hitting Mercenary's is the single biggest upgrade I can make for my character.
The uniques do replenish, it just takes like 4-6 hours of waiting. Your statement is one of the only differences I feel but with just patience and timing you can still achieve the same unique pool to vaal. I've vaaled like 100 gloves on BL and still no curse on hit, I eventually just gave up but every time I wanted to vaal them I could pick up 15-20 pairs for an alc/fuse with little to no effort. It is tedious though and not everyone can handle that kinda play. A different league wont change this though aside from how much you can possibly buy at a single time.
I guess one notable thing would be if it was standard and hc, now the playerbase here is worth mentioning in terms of being different but I dont feel bl / torment is gamebreaking different in terms of what there is offered for LLD gear available.
Last edited by terrex on Feb 10, 2015, 12:25:54 PM
Not into grinding out HC gear to fight SC Players who can die over and over to get their loot.
If you want to do something like this make a PvP set and call it a day. Let player skill be the judge of whos best.
How the loot is obtained makes absolutely no difference. Both leagues have a supply of usable gear. People should do some research and actually post creditable things.
I also fully geared guys in both leagues. I will have to say it is def harder to gear a PvPer in bloodlines. The overall item pricing is cheaper, but the amount of items to choose from is so much lower than torment. Also, what about high level pvp? It's even more of an unfair advantage to high level characters. In torment you can rush into more difficult content without the fear of losing all your items. I'm not sure this can even be debated as its obvious torment has a huge advantage. I agree that bloodlines and torment should receive different Demi's and also should not have to compete in the same Swiss events.
yep Im all for a non competitive cross league que system. It sucks to wait 15 minutes and not get a single match.
As long as the ladders are seperated competetive ladder point matches should be just fine. Lets say we have a hidden ladder of all sc and hc players used for match making and simply make the sc ladder be a list of all the sc players on the hc/sc ladder. And the hc ladder be a list of the hc characters of the hc/sc ladder.
it was my idea first(er, lol the idea is so simple that I would even guess half the pvpers already had it before) :P
Lol yes I'm aware that the idea has been floating around before, since cross-league PvP has been suggested for a long time. But I was the first to respond to the announcement with this suggestion and I'm just happy we could get the ball rolling on a possible quick-fix.
I also fully geared guys in both leagues. I will have to say it is def harder to gear a PvPer in bloodlines. The overall item pricing is cheaper, but the amount of items to choose from is so much lower than torment. Also, what about high level pvp? It's even more of an unfair advantage to high level characters. In torment you can rush into more difficult content without the fear of losing all your items. I'm not sure this can even be debated as its obvious torment has a huge advantage. I agree that bloodlines and torment should receive different Demi's and also should not have to compete in the same Swiss events.
Cheaper, higher quality gems on bloodlines.
Better vaal orb ratio.
Still an endless supply of 1alc / 1 fuse uniques.
Still can buy life + dual / tri res items for a few chaos from xyz, sometimes it just takes a tad longer for them to be online.
Still can buy those nicely rolled items missing a life or res to craft and fill in a nice spot.
poe.xyz.is is quite magical
If anything, I had a much better, cheaper, more efficient character building process on bloodlines than torment.
Not falling for the bloodlines is harder after having first hand experience in making geared characters in both. Currency is a factor but unless you are going for 6links and some absolute perfect character, the difference is very minimal with patience and some trade knowledge.
I also fully geared guys in both leagues. I will have to say it is def harder to gear a PvPer in bloodlines. The overall item pricing is cheaper, but the amount of items to choose from is so much lower than torment. Also, what about high level pvp? It's even more of an unfair advantage to high level characters. In torment you can rush into more difficult content without the fear of losing all your items. I'm not sure this can even be debated as its obvious torment has a huge advantage. I agree that bloodlines and torment should receive different Demi's and also should not have to compete in the same Swiss events.
Cheaper, higher quality gems on bloodlines.
Better vaal orb ratio.
Still an endless supply of 1alc / 1 fuse uniques.
Still can buy life + dual / tri res items for a few chaos from xyz, sometimes it just takes a tad longer for them to be online.
Still can buy those nicely rolled items missing a life or res to craft and fill in a nice spot.
poe.xyz.is is quite magical
If anything, I had a much better, cheaper, more efficient character building process on bloodlines than torment.
Not falling for the bloodlines is harder after having first hand experience in making geared characters in both. Currency is a factor but unless you are going for 6links and some absolute perfect character, the difference is very minimal with patience and some trade knowledge.
I know you draw from personal experience, which is fine, but there's still a big psychological factor when it comes to approaching PvP gearing that can very easily deter lots of people from participating. The reality might be that some items are cheaper on BLD, but the total supply is smaller. BLD players who are on the fence about PvP see one Temp Chain on Hit glove available and immediately assume it will cost them big time, because the seller is gonna be a stickler about prices. Trying to corrupt anything yourself is an ordeal, because it takes longer (and people would generally equate this to more effort) to get enough bases to reliably hit the corrupt you want. I'm sure some people got lucky and were able to have a rather smooth time gearing up on BLD, but I'm also sure that a non-negligible number of people had a tougher time.
And let's not forget that HLD events are also going to be in Season 2. Gear disparity can be a lot more pronounced there, and yet we still award Demis.
And to address your edit, I don't think many people would disagree that the top PvPers would be similarly geared on either league. But I think the general problem is what we do with the mid level PvPers. I think it's harder for them to move up the ladder when there isn't that big of a supply of gear (and by that I mean the gear that would push them to the top PvPer group) to make that happen.
Last edited by mimivirus on Feb 10, 2015, 1:12:01 PM
I also fully geared guys in both leagues. I will have to say it is def harder to gear a PvPer in bloodlines. The overall item pricing is cheaper, but the amount of items to choose from is so much lower than torment. Also, what about high level pvp? It's even more of an unfair advantage to high level characters. In torment you can rush into more difficult content without the fear of losing all your items. I'm not sure this can even be debated as its obvious torment has a huge advantage. I agree that bloodlines and torment should receive different Demi's and also should not have to compete in the same Swiss events.
Cheaper, higher quality gems on bloodlines.
Better vaal orb ratio.
Still an endless supply of 1alc / 1 fuse uniques.
Still can buy life + dual / tri res items for a few chaos from xyz, sometimes it just takes a tad longer for them to be online.
Still can buy those nicely rolled items missing a life or res to fill in an item spot.
poe.xyz.is is quite magical
If anything, I had a much better, cheaper, more efficient character building process on bloodlines than torment.
I know you draw from personal experience, which is fine, but there's still a big psychological factor when it comes to approaching PvP gearing that can very easily deter lots of people from participating. The reality might be that some items are cheaper on BLD, but the total supply is smaller. BLD players who are on the fence about PvP see one Temp Chain on Hit glove available and immediately assume it will cost them big time, because the seller is gonna be a stickler about prices. Trying to corrupt anything yourself is an ordeal, because it takes longer (and people would generally equate this to more effort) to get enough bases to reliably hit the corrupt you want. I'm sure some people got lucky and were able to have a rather smooth time gearing up on BLD, but I'm also sure that a non-negligible number of people had a tougher time.
And let's not forget that HLD events are also going to be in Season 2. Gear disparity can be a lot more pronounced there, and yet we still award Demis.
HLD will probably feel this effect where as LLD doesnt in my opinion. I can agree that HLD differences will be maybe extreme in this case but LLD offers enough opportunity for both leagues to shine. I try to be a realist and there is a lot of bs in this thread on how things actually are comparing leagues in LLD terms, not HLD.
Nearly all my feedback is directed at LLD, sorry for not clarifying.
Terrex, are you going to be entering all of the events on your Bloodlines character or your Torment character?
Torment because of my curse on hit gloves, only reason. Haven't really been playing much the past couple weeks after I put together my characters, just waiting for events.
Literally the only reason is because of gloves and maybe 1 better luckier elreon ring craft...
Got though.. Unsure if the curse is even worth it at this point with my setup. These 2 are on BL. They are honestly very equal in gear, guild can prob vouch with me punishing them with item links lol.
