Treating your customers well GGG

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renruB wrote:

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Actingrude wrote:

Lets be clear, scamming is not okay. But the way to deal with it is not through public posts but through private messages to ggg support.

Public shaming is much more fun though.

You aren't wrong.

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Actingrude wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

In some cases they are libertarian and it other cases totalitarian in the most extreme sense. Makes no sense from an ideological perspective.

I mean, it's like you said, they are a-ok with scamming, but "exposing" the scammers (even when presenting an overwhelming amount of evidence) is somehow crossing a moral line. It's almost surreal.

GGG is best explained as a weird abomination, trying to mix libertarianism with totalitarianism. It just can't work this way, for obvious reason.

If you are going to have rules based on abstract ideals, at least show some consistency.

Lets be clear, scamming is not okay. But the way to deal with it is not through public posts but through private messages to ggg support.

Nonsense, GGG are a-ok with scamming, nothing will happen to you if you scam someone, because scamming isn't breaking any rule.

This is why a public forum is absolutely necessary. If you lack a central-authority protecting those who are getting scammed, the community will necessarily have to self-regulate.

It's like you are living in some libertarian fantasy land, where people can commit crimes in the absence of any executive force, but vigilantism would still not be justified.

But vigilantism is generally what happens when you lack a central-authority, almost necessarily so.

And it's not even vigilantism in a strict sense, it's just word of mouth (a free flow of information). Not even that is ok, but scamming someone? No problem.


I mean what the hell does naming and shaming even mean? If I point out that Adolf Hitler has killed millions of innocent people am I "naming and shaming" Adolf Hitler and should my post be removed as a consequence of my supposedly "immoral" behaviour? Where does this madness end?

Just wanted to chime in and say I don't play this game anymore solely because of the shitty approach GGG has concerning discussing on forums regarding known cheaters/botters/rmters.

The final straw was them deleting (not editing) my posts over and over again, until I just gave up. And I was not shaming or naming, I was just saying how they are doing shit against rmters and cheaters.

[removed by support]

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

As for name and shame, this is why a proper gaming community makes its own hub. The reddit is close, except that Chris made it to begin with. You cannot expect freedom of speech on the official forum, and compared to many, this is still far from draconian.

No you can't expect freedom of speech, obviously not. But you can expect freedom to scam, obviously.

Nobody cares about draconianism per se, this isn't about GGG's approach in any specific case, but about general consistency. XBL is draconian in the extreme and people are fine with it, simply because the rules are applied consistently across the board. In PoE this clearly isn't the case and that's what pisses people off.

It's not context-independent. To say that scamming is ok but reporting a scammer is not is to make a moral judgement that needs to be justified, or else people (like myself) won't care to take that judgement seriously.

Imagine me as the draconian leader of society, sharing (in my infinite wisdom) the following two moral rules with you (the credulous):

"Stealing is fine and no longer a criminal act."

"Sharing the names of thieves with other people is now punishable by death."

And now let's suppose I justified my rules in the exact same way you are justifying GGG's rules here:

"You can't expect 100% freedom of speech."


And of course it's true GGG can run this place however they want. But the same is true in the real world, no society is in any way obligated to grant to you the right to speak freely, this being able to speak freely is very much conditional. We just know what happens when people are denied "the right" to speak freely, at best you get a mass exodus, at worst... violence. (sometimes it can result
in "troll creation", I would cite Hilbert as an example here, but I don't want him to get mad at me)

And that's not even to put into question if the intellectual and physical property rights institutions even make sense in the first place. "I own this place therefore I get to decide what you can and cannot say."

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Hilbert refers to himself as a 'parasite' regarding his presence here. That precise word. Your example is apt. I cannot disagree with it, but for the possibility of a predisposition towards what I've seen in a lot of hardcore fans of anything that then disappoints them on a personal level: that intense flip from love to hate. The closest I can come in comparison is a jilted lover.

The scamming situation isn't that simple. The line you should have taken away from what I said is what I'll repeat here, and I'm going to leave it at that:

"Here we have a game that encourages trading being run by a Dev team that demands absolute proof of RMT before acting."

Feel free to substitute 'RMT' with any other illicit behaviour.

I wasn't aware that you could get banned for scamming.

Only 1 silver+divine scammer got banned so far he scammed in the #1 Discharger build by "borrowing stuff".

Our 4xgolden RMT+Scammerfriend with over 50 censored allegations is still not banned.

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renruB wrote:

If anyone knows GGGs we dont give a shit policy it should be you. Its a shame they wont listen to anything u say about this game. You would think they would take feedback from an alpha member who is very knowledgeable about the game.

Just to be clear, 95% of the people with the Alpha Member tag aren't relevant anymore. I don't mean this in a derogatory way. They were just all banned en-mass from alpha and only a very very select few were given access again.


The tag hasn't been of use nor has it allowed anyone to expedite feedback for over a year now. Your best bet these days is to really just e-mail Chris directly and even then he has to go through the other less receptive members of the team.

half my racing in season 9 involved me coming to the race and season feedback forum and reading Slix's posts

-HeaT

It's cute when companies think they're going to explode and get big.

"This too shall pass"

Like a kidney stone on a gravitron.

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GaylordAsspinata wrote:

It's cute when companies think they're going to explode and get big.

"This too shall pass"

Like a kidney stone on a gravitron.

You're too clever for your own good.