For the HLD folks

Okay so a lot HLDers were upset, evidently. We knew this would happen. So this is a thread where I explain stuff because I see a lot of sad assumptions.

-There was not enough time for both LLD and HLD because they were starting from nothing. They had to create new events, release events around a balanced meta and create uniques and crafting mods relevant to pvp. It was either they release LLD and events or no pvp at all. The truth is HLD is more time consuming to balance.

-There will be HLD events. They are not stressed as much because LLD has gone through a lot of balancing and will be released in a very balanced state. So it makes sense to advertise the more balanced events and the more accessible events. I don't think anyone can realistically deny that LLD is more accessible and balanced currently.

-I was not flown there to do HLD balancing. They know I do LLD and I even told them that. I took it upon myself to ask HLDers for help though so I can give input directly from the community. (i.e this is the community talking directly to Chris through my mouth). How I did this is I looked at feedback from HLD threads (i read all threads here) and I made a topic where I asked "what is one thing you could change about HLD if you had the power to do so" remember that thread? The only HLD feedback given to GGG came from you guys, not me. I just gave it to them because as you know they don't read pvp feedback section often.

-I care about HLD. I find it hard to get into and im personally too poor to invest in HLD because it is expensive and because i invest a lot in LLD (keep in mind im not a rich player so "a lot" is relative here). I knew the HLDers would be upset to not have events. This is why we discussed "what can we do for HLDers who want something now? The answer was to try to implement casual HLD events or competitive events that don't count for points. I am not sure at this time what the HLD events will be.

-HLD will get it's time! This time it was building the foundation for PVP and introducing LLD. next block of free time will be dedicated to HLD. It is not because HLD is unreleased now that it will be unreleased for ever. It just couldn't fit in this block of free time they had.

-I did my research. I gave them what I believe is non-bias feedback. I am talking about LLD here, however i want you guys to know that I went through topics and directly copy/pasted quotes from players. I worked on a build tier list, I gave my feedback as a tournament host about times for games, points per rounds, what worked, what didn't. They were working on events primarily and I am an event organizer. That's why I got sent there.

-This one is sad: Someone said I dont care about HLD and thats why I didnt finish uploading HLD vods to my youtube. The truth is my internet bandwidth is limited to 60 gigs a month. I'm in the middle of farms and have shitty internet. This means I must download twitch vods and upload youtube vids between Midnight and 6am when I have unlimited bandwidth. Furthermore, my download speed and upload speed is trash. I can barely stream 480p quality. Uploading a youtube video takes like 6 hours which means I can only upload 1 video a day if I had time to edit it. I have a life, i go to school, i work part time, i had to go to new zealand and I had to do work and tests to make up for lost school time. I had to prepare for new zealand and I had to play games because im not a zombie. So this left little to no time for me to finish uploading all of them. Please do not assume things about my life. I am not leaving a half empty playlist of HLD vods on my youtube because I don't like HLD. That is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

- LLD balance does NOT affect HLD. We do the following "Gems at low level deal less damage and by level 18 the damage is the same". This is an example of how to nerf something at LLD only. You guys have seen similar patch notes before. They can nerf early level or high levels without affect the opposite one. Most LLD gems go up to level 8 max so by the time you are lvl 18 gems, the changes are non-existant.


I will be answering you guys below so if I forgot to say something above, please tell me!

I went on Hege's stream and allowed him to ask me questions because I knew he was upset about the lack of HLD news. Please listen to it, especially if you don't want to read the wall of txt above: http://www.twitch.tv/hegemonytv/b/578447910?t=245m39s

Sorry but to me this is another one big fail, just like everything else pvp related from ggg.
Pvp has no limits, and lld is only a little slice of all cake. First you have to work around all pvp.
I really will not wait another 2 years before something will happen again.
Our guild is the most active and accknowledged in hld, yet no1 asked us something, they preferred to read the rants of random ppl that pvped 2 times and dont know how pvp works. Haunt already quitted, dullah is pn another game, me and shadow barely play cause there is no1 pvping.
Thanks ggg for killing this awrsome game, better add some more mtx to gain money

I'm sorry but after reading your post, I find the situation even more pathetic. Everything happened 'secretly', nobody had any information about what was going on... If they took the time and money to fly a player for 'consultation' they could have atleast updated the community about what they were doing. With the current end result, most HLD players are left with a bad taste in the mouth, it is just weird that by flying one of the player who pushes a lot lld (it is impossible to be totally unbiased...) ends up by having lld only tournaments/season/whatever. If it was only a matter of time, just take a few more months to the 'coming soon calender' to do everything correctly instead of ignoring half the players.


In my opinion, a lot of things haven't been managed correctly. If you really want the players' opinion, ask the community by doing polls or threads (haven't seen a single thread from the staff about this), but don't ask a single player about what he thinks... And for god's sake when you ask something, listen to the answer.

By the way, If you don't understand my terrible english, nothing in this post is aimed at you. It is normal that if you enjoy lld, you will push more for lld. It is not possible for a human being to be totally unbiased. I'm just mad at the process that defined the futur events and how everything has been handled. For my part, I guess I will just leave this game since nothing happened for a while and it gets boring.

"

GreenDude wrote:

-This one is sad: Someone said I dont care about HLD and thats why I didnt finish uploading HLD vods to my youtube. The truth is my internet bandwidth is limited to 60 gigs a month. I'm in the middle of farms and have shitty internet. This means I must download twitch vods and upload youtube vids between Midnight and 6am when I have unlimited bandwidth. Furthermore, my download speed and upload speed is trash. I can barely stream 480p quality. Uploading a youtube video takes like 6 hours which means I can only upload 1 video a day if I had time to edit it. I have a life, i go to school, i work part time, i had to go to new zealand and I had to do work and tests to make up for lost school time. I had to prepare for new zealand and I had to play games because im not a zombie. So this left little to no time for me to finish uploading all of them. Please do not assume things about my life. I am not leaving a half empty playlist of HLD vods on my youtube because I don't like HLD. That is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

You got the syllogism reversed: you not finishing the upload of the HLD vods shows that you don't care about HLD.

Two corrections:
1) It's not the fact that you didn't finish uploading the VODs; it's that you blatantly renigged on a commitment you made. Assumptions derived from that are completely reasonable and founded.

Here's a great quote from September 20, 2014:

"

GreenDude wrote:

Now you guys understand why I didn't want to stream it, shoutcast it and get prizes for it (the HLD tourney). All i hear is complaining from HLDers and the worse is when we say "well why dont you come to LLD" they are like "oh no there is not enough diversity"

lol so you complain all day about HLD but diversity makes LLD broken to you?

You guys make me laugh :P

Anyway a little update on HLD: ill have all the vods uploaded before the LLD tourney next weekend i promise. we'll also be thinking about doing another HLD soon enough.

2) Breaking the commitment you made is just one of many things that showcase your bias. The above quote is just one of many examples where the other stupid shit you say also demonstrate your prejudice (even if you claim you were just "poking some fun" post ex facto).

Don't get me wrong - you've done great things for LLD and the PvP community in general. I just don't want someone who says things like above involved in any decisions whatsoever that could affect HLD - either through indirect change or neglect.

Edit: Not going to waste any more time trying to get my point across in this shitshow. Suffice to say that I would have preferred someone like Oats or Hege who have gameplay experience with both events and have been totally respectful to both communities to help inform PvP event and balancing decisions. While I appreciate all you have done for PvP, I think your only advantage is knowledge of tournament structure, which is the least of the many problems GGG will face with this patch.

And of course, I'm upset that, once again, HLD is on the backburner. People are arguing that it is good GGG is finally paying attention to PvP, and that will positively impact HLD. I agree, but now HLD is #3 on the priorities list behind PvE and LLD. I'm unconvinced that HLD is better off in light of recent developments.

"

tempallo wrote:

Sorry but to me this is another one big fail, just like everything else pvp related from ggg.
Pvp has no limits, and lld is only a little slice of all cake. First you have to work around all pvp.
I really will not wait another 2 years before something will happen again.
Our guild is the most active and accknowledged in hld, yet no1 asked us something, they preferred to read the rants of random ppl that pvped 2 times and dont know how pvp works. Haunt already quitted, dullah is pn another game, me and shadow barely play cause there is no1 pvping.
Thanks ggg for killing this awrsome game, better add some more mtx to gain money

No offense man but ICU is mostly bias. A guild consisting of casters,trappers,daggers and puncture bow users isn't exactly playing the same PvP game other ppl are. There are exceptions to that statement but it is what it is. Certain leaders of said guild see stuff with blinders on. Think just because you can redo your tree in between rounds PvP is sitting nice. When in reality there's giant meta flaws in hld, flasks are a bad concept, RNG evasions to avoid 1shots, pros and near 0 con's of some specs and the plethora of anti melee mechanics in place + game engine limitations etc. You're a guild of ranged specs or daggers. Rehiv doesn't count hes not really stomping asses like melee is godlike.

This shadow on my account has been just about every PvP viable spec in the game. Using trash I found as I mapped my main character. I have a really solid understanding of what's ez mode and what isn't. Trapper I made had 3k HP, acrobatics and a tabula rasa ...was basically nude beyond that. I was dropping specs that give my Mara trouble easily. I had a bow with puncture...free. I had crit ek,fp,arc,fb ...free. I've played dagger...free. This is in trash mind you, in the gear you guys have you should be immortal. You have training wheels on man, sorry. I don't want to be a dick but that's the bottom line.

We play the builds that we want and that works better in the current meta. If the game is unbalanced it's not my fault. I can tell you the opposite of ehat you said: i see you playing 2h sword and just jumping into mytraps and die, then go and rant on forum about we playing op buolds. Maybe try to do something else or change ur build if it doesnt work. Nothing against you, i just used us to do an example.

"

MullaXul wrote:

"

tempallo wrote:

Sorry but to me this is another one big fail, just like everything else pvp related from ggg.
Pvp has no limits, and lld is only a little slice of all cake. First you have to work around all pvp.
I really will not wait another 2 years before something will happen again.
Our guild is the most active and accknowledged in hld, yet no1 asked us something, they preferred to read the rants of random ppl that pvped 2 times and dont know how pvp works. Haunt already quitted, dullah is pn another game, me and shadow barely play cause there is no1 pvping.
Thanks ggg for killing this awrsome game, better add some more mtx to gain money

No offense man but ICU is mostly bias. A guild consisting of casters,trappers,daggers and puncture bow users isn't exactly playing the same PvP game other ppl are. There are exceptions to that statement but it is what it is. Certain leaders of said guild see stuff with blinders on. Think just because you can redo your tree in between rounds PvP is sitting nice. When in reality there's giant meta flaws in hld, flasks are a bad concept, RNG evasions to avoid 1shots, pros and near 0 con's of some specs and the plethora of anti melee mechanics in place + game engine limitations etc. You're a guild of ranged specs or daggers. Rehiv doesn't count hes not really stomping asses like melee is godlike.

This shadow on my account has been just about every PvP viable spec in the game. Using trash I found as I mapped my main character. I have a really solid understanding of what's ez mode and what isn't. Trapper I made had 3k HP, acrobatics and a tabula rasa ...was basically nude beyond that. I was dropping specs that give my Mara trouble easily. I had a bow with puncture...free. I had crit ek,fp,arc,fb ...free. I've played dagger...free. This is in trash mind you, in the gear you guys have you should be immortal. You have training wheels on man, sorry. I don't want to be a dick but that's the bottom line.

We're not playing the same PvP game other people are? I feel that you are the one who is not playing like most people, of course the guild is filled with "OP" builds like puncture/caster/dagger but that's because we aimed to dominate other builds, it's only natural to use what works best for that purpose.

I can understand why you're pissed off about certain builds, I've played 2h sword build for a moment pre 1.2 patch, it was ok, not the best but I was still able to compete with most builds, but post 1.2 patch, 2h melee builds sucks more than ever and are imo the lowest tier builds.

As for my dagger, I made the build originally to counter the old RF build, as it was the only way to kill them before they were nerfed, and I will continue using it as long as it is effective even though I'm not playing PoE that much lately.

Also from the sticky PVP Feedback:

"

Qarl wrote:

Also, if there is something your strongly feel is severely problematic, the best way to get the message across is to abuse it in PVP.

"

MullaXul wrote:

"

tempallo wrote:

Sorry but to me this is another one big fail, just like everything else pvp related from ggg.
Pvp has no limits, and lld is only a little slice of all cake. First you have to work around all pvp.
I really will not wait another 2 years before something will happen again.
Our guild is the most active and accknowledged in hld, yet no1 asked us something, they preferred to read the rants of random ppl that pvped 2 times and dont know how pvp works. Haunt already quitted, dullah is pn another game, me and shadow barely play cause there is no1 pvping.
Thanks ggg for killing this awrsome game, better add some more mtx to gain money

No offense man but ICU is mostly bias. A guild consisting of casters,trappers,daggers and puncture bow users isn't exactly playing the same PvP game other ppl are. There are exceptions to that statement but it is what it is. Certain leaders of said guild see stuff with blinders on. Think just because you can redo your tree in between rounds PvP is sitting nice. When in reality there's giant meta flaws in hld, flasks are a bad concept, RNG evasions to avoid 1shots, pros and near 0 con's of some specs and the plethora of anti melee mechanics in place + game engine limitations etc. You're a guild of ranged specs or daggers. Rehiv doesn't count hes not really stomping asses like melee is godlike.

This shadow on my account has been just about every PvP viable spec in the game. Using trash I found as I mapped my main character. I have a really solid understanding of what's ez mode and what isn't. Trapper I made had 3k HP, acrobatics and a tabula rasa ...was basically nude beyond that. I was dropping specs that give my Mara trouble easily. I had a bow with puncture...free. I had crit ek,fp,arc,fb ...free. I've played dagger...free. This is in trash mind you, in the gear you guys have you should be immortal. You have training wheels on man, sorry. I don't want to be a dick but that's the bottom line.

I am no criterino :(

Fly Tommie to GGG for hld

Pvp is at a point where things shouldnt be done in secret imo. When I see a thread titled "whats the one thing youd change about pvp?" I think to myself thats cute someone has good intentions... but weve been through this before providing feedback and not getting any feedback of our own. I didnt respond in the thread because I didnt think it would make a difference. Had the thread been titled "Your suggestions are going directly to GGG via my mouth." you may have got more participation.

I dont post in this section very often as I find it silly to follow people around going +1 I agree. For the most part there are a lot of intelligent people who pvp we know what the glaring issues are but no one has listened to us in year we really need an open line of communication with GGG with regards to HLD.

also

"

Qarl wrote:

Also, if there is something your strongly feel is severely problematic, the best way to get the message across is to abuse it in PVP.

This is what I have been doing as of late. I really want to play 1h sword and shield but its so inferior to dagger that theres no point. I dont play PvP to loose so ill stick with dagger for now and abuse them the best I can so that maybe they can be brought in line with other options or other options can be buffed to the same viability.

On a positive note I am glad they are focusing on pvp for the time being even if it is just LLD. I hope they start working on HLD soon because for myself and a lot of other people here HLD is the true end game.