Are we gonna pretend that...

"

renruB wrote:

"

janimauk wrote:

i think we can use good results as proof if were all playing same class with almost zero skill requirement yet someone always beats us by alot

is [Removed by Support] cheating? I don't think so. He wins every single witch race that he does. At this point I dont think witch takes much skill and he always wins that doesnt mean he is cheating. [Removed by Support].

Actually I know quite a few "prominent racers" who've told me that they think [Removed by Support] might be cheating. That's not to say that he is cheating or that their suspicions matter, but I think the presumption of innocence simply doesn't work in an environment like Path of Exile.

As far as I'm concerned, in PoE, you have to prove your innocence. It's not like in the real world where the presumption of innocence makes sense, because we have the means to hold fair trials there, with physical evidence and so on.

"

renruB wrote:

I guess that I just see it differently than you. I guess I jut look at it like ya he is just good at racing. Maybe he is cheating maybe he isnt. I also have been racing for a while now to and Im not as good as you but that doesnt mean that new ppl cant pop up and be good at racing. Idk its just my opinion that its not fair to call ppl cheaters when you dont have proof.

New people can pop up and be good at racing, that happened a lot. There's never been a single person who hasn't raced before and started beating everyone on his class, getting amazing consistent results every race. Even if you know everything about PoE and have the best ingame micro of all time, there's still some decision-making involved in racing. You need actual racing experience to correctly make those decisions and that's why a person who only started racing this season should not beat everyone in his class most of the time.

I can't get any proof of someone being a cheater because this is not a direct competition game where i can interact with my opponent. You're telling me just because i can't get any viable proof, i can't accuse someone and have to sit here and bask in the silence? When i see a fucking racing anomaly? When there's a working maphack since april '13 and and even better tool since march '14?

And like Lyralei said, even top racers can't get such consistent results all the time because of monster density. Actually "seeing" the monsters fixes that problem.

"

cwu wrote:

New people can pop up and be good at racing, that happened a lot. There's never been a single person who hasn't raced before and started beating everyone on his class, getting amazing consistent results every race. Even if you know everything about PoE and have the best ingame micro of all time, there's still some decision-making involved in racing. You need actual racing experience to correctly make those decisions and that's why a person who only started racing this season should not beat everyone in his class most of the time.

I can't get any proof of someone being a cheater because this is not a direct competition game where i can interact with my opponent. You're telling me just because i can't get any viable proof, i can't accuse someone and have to sit here and bask in the silence? When i see a fucking racing anomaly? When there's a working maphack since april '13 and and even better tool since march '14?

And like Lyralei said, even top racers can't get such consistent results all the time because of monster density. Actually "seeing" the monsters fixes that problem.

What you have to realize is its only a game. Ya racing is supposed to be competitive and someone cheating is annoying. If they really want to go that far to win I feel bad for them becuase it is only a game.

"

SlixSC wrote:

Actually I know quite a few "prominent racers" who've told me that they think [Removed by Support] might be cheating. That's not to say that he is cheating or that their suspicions matter, but I think the presumption of innocence simply doesn't work in an environment like Path of Exile.

As far as I'm concerned, in PoE, you have to prove your innocence. It's not like in the real world where the presumption of innocence makes sense, because we have the means to hold fair trials there, with physical evidence and so on.

Not everyone can stream there races it doesnt mean they are all cheating.

"

renruB wrote:

"

SlixSC wrote:

Actually I know quite a few "prominent racers" who've told me that they think Throzz might be cheating. That's not to say that he is cheating or that their suspicions matter, but I think the presumption of innocence simply doesn't work in an environment like Path of Exile.

As far as I'm concerned, in PoE, you have to prove your innocence. It's not like in the real world where the presumption of innocence makes sense, because we have the means to hold fair trials there, with physical evidence and so on.

Not everyone can stream there races it doesnt mean they are all cheating.

streaming no longer means you arent cheating

"

renruB wrote:

"

SlixSC wrote:

Actually I know quite a few "prominent racers" who've told me that they think [Removed by Support] might be cheating. That's not to say that he is cheating or that their suspicions matter, but I think the presumption of innocence simply doesn't work in an environment like Path of Exile.

As far as I'm concerned, in PoE, you have to prove your innocence. It's not like in the real world where the presumption of innocence makes sense, because we have the means to hold fair trials there, with physical evidence and so on.

Not everyone can stream there races it doesnt mean they are all cheating.

The assumption is not that they are cheating. The assumption is that we simply don't know if they are innocent or guilty and we cannnot assume their innocence like we can in the real world, where we have means to investigate and collect evidence.

In a philosophical sense you would have to say that we are in the epistemically weakest possible position (with no way of improving that position) so the only logical assumption is that it's neither here nor there.

Just to elaborate on that, the reason we have this "presumption of innocence" in the real world is that we know with almost absolute certainty that the number of people that do not commit crimes in the real world is far greater than the number of people that commit crimes in the real world. So the assumption is in line with what we know to be true.

The same cannot be said for Path of Exile, for all we know the number of hackers could be less than, the same as or even greater than the number of legit players. We just don't know.

Imagine a world in which everyone is a criminal, would it make any sense to have a presumption of innocence in a world like that? Granted, that's a rather extreme example, but you get the point.

"

janimauk wrote:

streaming no longer means you arent cheating

[Removed by Support]

"

renruB wrote:

"

cwu wrote:

New people can pop up and be good at racing, that happened a lot. There's never been a single person who hasn't raced before and started beating everyone on his class, getting amazing consistent results every race. Even if you know everything about PoE and have the best ingame micro of all time, there's still some decision-making involved in racing. You need actual racing experience to correctly make those decisions and that's why a person who only started racing this season should not beat everyone in his class most of the time.

I can't get any proof of someone being a cheater because this is not a direct competition game where i can interact with my opponent. You're telling me just because i can't get any viable proof, i can't accuse someone and have to sit here and bask in the silence? When i see a fucking racing anomaly? When there's a working maphack since april '13 and and even better tool since march '14?

And like Lyralei said, even top racers can't get such consistent results all the time because of monster density. Actually "seeing" the monsters fixes that problem.

What you have to realize is its only a game. Ya racing is supposed to be competitive and someone cheating is annoying. If they really want to go that far to win I feel bad for them becuase it is only a game.

So why have rules? Don't need them right. Why even have the word competitive. Lets rename it.

We'll call it..

Descent: Cheaters 2 - Electric Boogaloo

"

Lyralei wrote:

"

renruB wrote:

"

cwu wrote:

New people can pop up and be good at racing, that happened a lot. There's never been a single person who hasn't raced before and started beating everyone on his class, getting amazing consistent results every race. Even if you know everything about PoE and have the best ingame micro of all time, there's still some decision-making involved in racing. You need actual racing experience to correctly make those decisions and that's why a person who only started racing this season should not beat everyone in his class most of the time.

I can't get any proof of someone being a cheater because this is not a direct competition game where i can interact with my opponent. You're telling me just because i can't get any viable proof, i can't accuse someone and have to sit here and bask in the silence? When i see a fucking racing anomaly? When there's a working maphack since april '13 and and even better tool since march '14?

And like Lyralei said, even top racers can't get such consistent results all the time because of monster density. Actually "seeing" the monsters fixes that problem.

What you have to realize is its only a game. Ya racing is supposed to be competitive and someone cheating is annoying. If they really want to go that far to win I feel bad for them becuase it is only a game.

So why have rules? Don't need them right. Why even have the word competitive. Lets rename it.

We'll call it..

Descent: Cheaters 2 - Electric Boogaloo

descent: didnt see this coming... "yes i did" -cheaters 2014

"

H'oooookay Jesse Ventura. When is the next season of your show coming out?

Reddit whenever you are in need of pussy ;)

"

and there doesnt appear to be any secret strats when it comes to progression either, you wanna hit certain lvl before certain zones otherwise you lose the time you gained because your killspeed is so slow.

The busts I won(In class) or overall were always in lower/upper prison with MS boots and a 2h Corroded blade.

With better luck and revealed map level 10 would be possible.
But casters will more end up in LP.


But I don't think I did good a single time after the Corrupted Fuckups got introduced.
Level 8,25 maybe once.
But most of the time stuck at level 7.

"

When there's a working maphack since april '13 and and even better tool since march '14?

The Maphack exists since October-December 2012.
It was only ported to an instant ban(in all normal games) engine later.

A change to mapoverlays and maphandling has been promised for July 2012.