Please do not start balancing skills around PvP

Ya, but i got only 900 hp with 0 poison res. I have now close to 50 life regen, if I could get better gear with 1,5k life, regen would jump to 70 or so. Then your viper strike wouldn't be that deadly unless you have +1 to melee gems on your weapon. Also, I would still be forced to add flicker strike, which I don't use atm, to my skill list to be able to catch you + more potions with imune to curse since I have only 1.

Anyways, gonna gradually go to merciless pvp to see how things are there. Should be more interesting, since builds can not be so all rounded as in lvl 28.

900 is not much defference from me
i have 900~1000 depends on resistance rings i wear

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kiersz wrote:

what that flicker strike build
is it use only flicker strike and oneshot anything on sight
i just dint get it
who can be oneshoted by flicker strike

btw if someone can be oneshoted by flicker that someone can be ez oneshoted by some kind of burning arrow
so all rangers suddenly become op too ?

You didn't read what I wrote, which is pretty much what I expected. Let me quote it so you'll pay more attention:

"

And as for Flicker Strike, they don't have to keep using just that; they only use it to get to you, at which point they can unleash any number of skills that actually do omnislash you, and Flicker Strike again when you try to get away.

Flicker Strike doesn't have to be the most damaging skill. The mobility it gives is more than enough to set up numerous other skills.

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Firebrand76 wrote:

Flicker strike counter? Easy. Molten shell + shield. In merciless pvp especially, molten is a one shot in many cases.

Hardly. If they're any good they'll bait out the shell cast, wait until it's worn off and then come at you again and interrupt any attempt to recast it with massive attack speed. There are only two things you can do about that and they're both extremely limited in their ability to serve as a counter. First is having high evasion, which - surprise surprise - will generally be on another Flicker Strike user. Excepting bows, no build that has high dexterity has any reason not to have Flicker Strike, and Point Blank, which would theoretically counter Flicker Strike, can easily be nullified by dashing away with Whirling Blades as soon as a problem arises. The Flicker Strike user can get away with this because the bow user will never have a higher ES value than the Flicker Strike user. This is both because they're further from ES nodes and because they don't have any ES items of near the same caliber; a bow user can't spec into ES without sacrificing everything that makes them good with bows. The second major counter that actually doesn't work is having high block chance; all the Flicker Striker has to do is use items that reduce enemy block chance. As for the shield part of that defense, it's easy to use Viper Strike and Flicker Strike together to completely nullify enemy ES - far easier than it should be because chaos damage is OP in both PvE and PvP right now. And as a bonus, Viper Strike also gets past Molten Shell because it does chaos damage. Of course, the only reliable way to defend against chaos damage is CI, which will usually be found on...you can probably guess where I'm going with this.

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AValidAccountName wrote:

Hardly. If they're any good they'll bait out the shell cast, wait until it's worn off and then come at you again and interrupt any attempt to recast it with massive attack speed.

Well, why wait for it to wear off then? I just recast it before the timer goes off. They flicker... boom it goes off. I move away a tad, reapply. Boom it goes off, if they try and flicker again. Eventually they get the idea it's a losing battle.

On my witch at one point, I had an average 20k molten shell. 50k if it crits. There's no chance for a second flicker. On my marauder the damage was much lower but regardless it still got the job done.

This isn't me theory crafting here. I've faced many flicker builds, and molten is clearly a valid counter if the damage is high enough.

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Firebrand76 wrote:

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AValidAccountName wrote:

Hardly. If they're any good they'll bait out the shell cast, wait until it's worn off and then come at you again and interrupt any attempt to recast it with massive attack speed.

Well, why wait for it to wear off then? I just recast it before the timer goes off. They flicker... boom it goes off. I move away a tad, reapply. Boom it goes off, if they try and flicker again. Eventually they get the idea it's a losing battle.

On my witch at one point, I had an average 20k molten shell. 50k if it crits. There's no chance for a second flicker. On my marauder the damage was much lower but regardless it still got the job done.

This isn't me theory crafting here. I've faced many flicker builds, and molten is clearly a valid counter if the damage is high enough.

Read the rest of the post. But for the sake of added clarity, here is a description of the various paths the fight could take.

1) You use Molten Shell. They equip items that give 95% fire resist, flicker in anyway, tank the hit and use Viper Strike. If necessary they back off to regen before doing it again. You are now dead.

2) You use Molten Shell. They remove support gems from Flicker Strike and/or equip a different weapon with far less physical damage than their normal weapon and flicker in anyway now that they know they won't set off your Molten Shell. They use Viper Strike at full strength. You are now dead.

3) You use Molten Shell. They use Temporal Chains, which is standard on most Flicker Strike builds. They walk up to you sans Flicker Strike and use Viper Strike. You are now dead.

4) You use Molten Shell. They engage on you with Whirling Blades, which is standard on most Flicker Strike builds. They use Viper Strike. You are now dead. This may overlap with the previous path.

5) You use Molten Shell. They hang back and wait for you to exhaust your mana. If this doesn't happen, neither side wins.

6) You use Molten Shell. They smoke 50 pounds of weed and huff rubber cement, and in their drugged up stupor decide to charge you without doing any of the above. They still might win, depending on their timing and whether or not Molten Shell crits.

You say they won't survive a second Molten Shell, but none of these possibilities require them to. They only have to survive it a maximum of once, and they can potentially render it entirely null and void. After that they're attacking you so fast you can't do anything and getting all their ES back in the process while you get destroyed.

here is what i do with flicker/whirlwinders
i place 5 remote mines under my feet fueled with powerfull wizardry, when they flicker i detonate them and they die.

I have but one question. Why casuals decided to come and ruin yet another game by whining and crying? Either improve your gear, reflexes and char (reroll if needed) or go tea party somewhere else.

Seriously, soon we'll see Puncture being named OP, because if you get punctured and run you die and if you stand, you die too, omfg so broken....

My fav suggestion so far was: Balance skills by PvP and then balance PvE by those new skills and just ruin everything in the process.

Having in mind the devs that made PoE, I doubt they'll do any of this nonsences, maybe some minor tweaks if over a longer period of time something actually does come on top as broken and one-sided.

but some things are bugged in pvp and you must agree with that
for example after you cast a Lightning Warp and you get stunlocked inbetween teleports, you wont get teleported at all... as if spell that has already been cast need you not to be stunlocked to work... its a huge bug that makes running away impossible with this potentialy great escape skill.

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AValidAccountName wrote:

Read the rest of the post. But for the sake of added clarity, here is a description of the various paths the fight could take.

1) You use Molten Shell. They equip items that give 95% fire resist, flicker in anyway, tank the hit and use Viper Strike. If necessary they back off to regen before doing it again. You are now dead.

2) You use Molten Shell. They remove support gems from Flicker Strike and/or equip a different weapon with far less physical damage than their normal weapon and flicker in anyway now that they know they won't set off your Molten Shell. They use Viper Strike at full strength. You are now dead.

3) You use Molten Shell. They use Temporal Chains, which is standard on most Flicker Strike builds. They walk up to you sans Flicker Strike and use Viper Strike. You are now dead.

4) You use Molten Shell. They engage on you with Whirling Blades, which is standard on most Flicker Strike builds. They use Viper Strike. You are now dead. This may overlap with the previous path.

5) You use Molten Shell. They hang back and wait for you to exhaust your mana. If this doesn't happen, neither side wins.

6) You use Molten Shell. They smoke 50 pounds of weed and huff rubber cement, and in their drugged up stupor decide to charge you without doing any of the above. They still might win, depending on their timing and whether or not Molten Shell crits.

You say they won't survive a second Molten Shell, but none of these possibilities require them to. They only have to survive it a maximum of once, and they can potentially render it entirely null and void. After that they're attacking you so fast you can't do anything and getting all their ES back in the process while you get destroyed.

Everything you mentioned can be countered as well. I'm not sure where you're going with this. Create a well rounded character. Not one dimensional. My merciless character has all these.

The best counter to molten is to have a non-melee skill.

You get viper striked. Create a character with high life regen, so you're not crushed by the chaos damage.

They cast curse. You use immunity flasks.

They have high ele resists. Use penetration supports.

You use clarity, or blood magic... mana problem solved.

You sound like you're theory crafting here, which hardly ever works out as expected when put in to practice. I've been pvp'ing both in normal and merc extensively since it first came out, and hardly anything works out as planned.

I've had to evolve my build every time someone had an "OP" skill. Everything has a counter. You end up seeing a rock, paper, scissors pattern emerge. It's hard to be strong against everything.

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Gravis wrote:

I have but one question. Why casuals decided to come and ruin yet another game by whining and crying? Either improve your gear, reflexes and char (reroll if needed) or go tea party somewhere else.

Seriously, soon we'll see Puncture being named OP, because if you get punctured and run you die and if you stand, you die too, omfg so broken....

My fav suggestion so far was: Balance skills by PvP and then balance PvE by those new skills and just ruin everything in the process.

Having in mind the devs that made PoE, I doubt they'll do any of this nonsences, maybe some minor tweaks if over a longer period of time something actually does come on top as broken and one-sided.

The bolded part is what your entire post is. Guess what? GGG has to make money and they won't be able to do it by catering solely to lifeless neckbeards. Welcome to real life.

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Firebrand76 wrote:

Everything you mentioned can be countered as well. I'm not sure where you're going with this. Create a well rounded character. Not one dimensional. My merciless character has all these.

The best counter to molten is to have a non-melee skill.

You get viper striked. Create a character with high life regen, so you're not crushed by the chaos damage.

They cast curse. You use immunity flasks.

They have high ele resists. Use penetration supports.

You use clarity, or blood magic... mana problem solved.

You sound like you're theory crafting here, which hardly ever works out as expected when put in to practice. I've been pvp'ing both in normal and merc extensively since it first came out, and hardly anything works out as planned.

I've had to evolve my build every time someone had an "OP" skill. Everything has a counter. You end up seeing a rock, paper, scissors pattern emerge. It's hard to be strong against everything.

This is mostly even more laughable than suggesting Molten Shell counters Flicker Strike. As a witch you are not going to have the kind of life regen necessary to stand up to a concentrated Viper Strike attack unless you go so far out of your way on the passive tree that you do no damage. Immunity flasks don't last forever; they can just keep recasting the curse until it sticks. Penetration supports and Elemental Weakness/Flammability can be gotten around by going with path 2 so Molten Shell never goes off. Using clarity or blood magic is the only thing that actually works out of all that, and it results in a draw.

I agree with the idea that you should have to build characters that aren't one-dimensional, but nothing you've said in any way disproves that Flicker Strike is OP.